Crit40
Posts:2602
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| 05/16/2008 10:06 AM |
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http://www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/2008-05-16-amputee-runner-appeal_N.htm
I saw this a month or so ago on HBO's Real Sports. Pretty cool decision on behalf of this athlete. |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Fergie
Posts:377
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| 05/16/2008 3:07 PM |
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While the story is an emotional triumph, I personally do not believe this guy should be allowed to compete with the other athletes without physical disabilities.
It is not fair IMO that he will be allowed to compete against athletes that do not share his disability. It is unfair to him and the athletes that have both legs. I debated most of lunch today around this subject.
What do you morons think? |
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SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1209
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| 05/16/2008 3:15 PM |
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I am pretty sure I speak for everybody here when I say we're in universal agreement that you're insanely jealous that this young man can do more with his PHYSICAL handicaps than you can even begin to comprehend doing with your myriad of MENTAL handicaps.
I'm sure you'll confirm this simple truth with your next post. |
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Fergie
Posts:377
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| 05/16/2008 3:21 PM |
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So, was that your earnest, honest opinion on this matter or was that your typical playing along to fit between the lines?
Do you have an original thought on this matter? |
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SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1209
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| 05/16/2008 3:24 PM |
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| Well...that was our general opinion about you, but since you insist -- it's a GREAT move by the powers that be to let him compete in spite of his handicap. He's not going to win a gold medal, IMO, but he should be allowed to compete if he is capable of performing at that level. |
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Crit40
Posts:2602
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| 05/16/2008 3:34 PM |
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It is not fair IMO that he will be allowed to compete against athletes that do not share his disability. It is unfair to him and the athletes that have both legs. I debated most of lunch today around this subject.
How is it unfair?
You stated in March that you attended the NCAA Wrestling Championships in St. Louis. Did you happen to watch the kid from Arizona State who only had 1 leg. He missed All-America status I believe by one match and he is a freshman.
So your position would be that he shouldn't have been able to compete why?
Please expound. |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Fergie
Posts:377
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| 05/16/2008 3:39 PM |
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So the factors involving his "advantage" of having the shock absorbed spring to utilize in the competition and his obvious "disadvantage" of not having portions of both legs do not factor into your thinking in regards to making the competition playing field fair?
Casey Martin in golf comes to mind. He wasn't allowed to play with the cart, not because he didn't deserve the usage of a cart, because he would be using an advantage others cannot have.
It's dynamics, the playing field has to be even in every way. If this is okay then let's just let women box men and men that can't make the NBA play in the WNBA? |
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Fergie
Posts:377
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| 05/16/2008 3:42 PM |
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And I didn't think that guy from ASU should have been competing in that tournament either. Playing fields being level is my argument. I understand that not everyone believes this should be but my question is then why are standards applied in most instances and then waiver ed in others?
Across the board uniformity is warranted to make the playing field level. This guy should not be allowed to compete with normal athletes in the Olympics IMO. |
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SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1209
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| 05/16/2008 3:47 PM |
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And how DID Casey Martin fare with that "advantage" he had in using a golf cart? How many PGA tour wins did he have? Win any majors? Ummm....no and no.
The story notes that his best time in the 400-meter dash is below the Olympic STANDARD...which means even if he does qualify he probably is going to be a one-and-done guy and not get past the prelims. His best bet, in all likelihood, will be going as an alternate on one of South Africa's relays. |
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Fergie
Posts:377
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| 05/16/2008 3:49 PM |
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It's not about whether he can qualify for me. He should not be allowed to compete because of his situation that makes him have both advantages and disadvantages that others do not share. The playing field is not even as a result.
Casey used the Americans with Disabilities Act and expensive attorneys to get his way. I didn't think his situation was fair either. Again, neither for him nor the competition. |
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SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1209
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| 05/16/2008 4:08 PM |
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If his "advantages" would allow him to beat the world's best and win Olympic gold, you might have an argument. He'll be lucky if he even qualifies to represent South Africa.
The same held true for Martin, and he was right to utilize the ADA in his fight. He wasn't good enough to win with whatever "advantage" he had, so in the end it's really not that big a deal. It's a feel-good story, and that's it. |
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Crit40
Posts:2602
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| 05/16/2008 4:10 PM |
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"The panel was not persuaded that there was sufficient evidence of any metabolic advantage in favor of a double-amputee using the Cheetah Flex-Foot," CAS said. "Furthermore, the CAS panel has considered that the IAAF did not prove that the biomechanical effects of using this particular prosthetic device gives Oscar Pistorius an advantage over other athletes not using the device."
Do you happen know something the "experts" don't. You are touting an "advantage", yet the kid hasn't even run a time fast enough to qualify at this point, so I'm not sure how he has an advantage.
Casey Martin would have had an advantage due to his being able to ride 18 holes while the others would have to walk. He would be fresh, while the others might be fatigued due to having to walk vs. ride. Maybe he should invest in one of these Cheetah Flex foots and walk the 18 like everyone else.
This kid is not requesting to compete against women. He is not requesting to use a souped-up electric wheel chair. He wants to compete against men. In all the cases you presented, their WOULD be an advantage that would make it unfair.
In this case, it has been determined that there is NO advantage. Especially considering running at peak speed requires the lower portion of the leg, which this kid does not have.
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Fergie
Posts:377
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| 05/16/2008 4:15 PM |
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I think we have a "common" case of I get you and you don't get me.
I understand what you are saying. My point has nothing to do with the capability of neither Casey Martin nor this amputee sprinter.
Level Playing Field.
When you bring elements like extra legs or no legs into the equation then the field is not even. I'm not the only one that believes this way. BTW, I don't blame Martin for using whatever it took to get what he wanted. Point is, many of his fellow golfers did not appreciate the disruption and having the exception being made for this guy and not for them when they play hurt or have a common cold.
Level Playing Field. |
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Crit40
Posts:2602
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| 05/16/2008 4:15 PM |
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And if Oscar doesn't give a sh!t about the "disadvantages" who are we to question his desires.
Same goes for the ASU kid. He whipped quite a few 2 legged, top notch athletes. You think he believes he has a disadvantage.
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1209
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| 05/16/2008 4:24 PM |
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Fergie -- what you don't seem to get is that the "level playing field" is not level at all. The able-bodied have a defnitive advantage over the handicapped athlete in this case and all you really need is a simple understanding of time comparisons to realize that.
All Casey Martin and this other kid want is a chance to compete at this level. Who are you to say they can't because of what you perceive is "advantages" they may have? |
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Fergie
Posts:377
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| 05/16/2008 4:25 PM |
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Those carbon fiber blades are not what my debate is about. It's about leveling the playing field for me. Whether he can run fast enough with those attachments to qualify or win is peripheral. What is important is that he has those devices on his legs and the other guys do not thus making his situation not alike his competition thus making the playing field not level.
Ben Johnson used steroids and was caught and his medals were stripped from him and had the hierarchy known prior to the games, he would not have been allowed to compete. Why?
Because his steriods made the playing field not fair.
So you are saying that Kobe Bryant should be allowed to juice with roids, take injections of a miracle drug from India and have fiberglass shock absorbers attached to his ankles for additional rise...and that would be okay?
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Crit40
Posts:2602
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| 05/16/2008 4:27 PM |
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| And the fact that the "level playing field" is not level to the detriment of the disabled, and they don't care, then why is it an issue? |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Fergie
Posts:377
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| 05/16/2008 4:28 PM |
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Posted By SeahawksSB42champs on 05/16/2008 4:24 PM
Fergie -- what you don't seem to get is that the "level playing field" is not level at all. The able-bodied have a defnitive advantage over the handicapped athlete in this case
That is exactly my point. My position protects both parties. Disabled or able-bodied.
Level Playing Field done right protects not only the integrity of the game but the participants also. |
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Crit40
Posts:2602
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| 05/16/2008 4:32 PM |
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| Fergie, you are not comparing apples to apples. Performance enhancing drugs and steroids are illegal. I don't think this kid is going to prison for owning prosthetics. If Kobe was legless, and had these devices to play, and he could compete, who gives a sh!t. Let him play. |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Fergie
Posts:377
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| 05/16/2008 4:37 PM |
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Ok, so the Bryant analogy was a "toss out there" thing.
Level Playing Field definition to me is: The regulating of factors involved in a competition to assure all competitors are afforded the same circumstances during the competition.
It's like pitting the Edmond Fitzgerald against the Titanic in a sprint, a classic case of non-level playing field. |
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