Crit40
Posts:2600
 |
| 04/08/2008 4:59 PM |
 Alert
|
It is assumed that Boone Picken's wallet it open, spilling over with cash for the next head basketball coach to claim. Will that be Bill Self?
Is cash the key for Self to make the move? Is it the challenge of doing what others say can't be done.....bringing a NC to Stillwater? Or is Self content with the opportunity to potentially earn more NCs with Kansas, for less money and longer tenure?  |
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1209
|
| 04/08/2008 5:09 PM |
Alert
|
Assume the good folks at RockChalk Tech are going to be sitting down with Bill in the days ahead now that he's won a national title. They probably aren't going to offer the kind of cash Boone Pickens will, but I'm sure winning a national title is going to loosen up the purse strings down in Lawrence, especially when you consider they don't want Self pulling a Roy Williams and bolting for his alma mater a second time.
Financially, leaving KU for Stillwater might be good. From a program perspective, though, it would be career suicide. While respectable, OSU's program is nowhere near where KU is in prestige and tradition. It would be like Bill Belichek leaving New England for Detroit.
Self can stay at KU as long as he wants, build one hell of a nest egg and maybe win a couple more national titles before he gets the ultimate call-up. He might have more money, but his stay at OSU won't be near as long, nor will his coaching legacy be anywhere near what it already is at KU...guaranteed.
If Self's all about the Benjamins, he'll go back to his alma mater. If he's about coaching kids and being in the hunt for national titles every year...he'll tell Boone where to stick his fat wallet (with all due respect, of course...). |
|
|
|
|
IrememberDukester
Posts:2495
|
| 04/08/2008 10:05 PM |
Alert
|
Going home is not always a bad thing!
I say he stays at KU if they can come up with lets say 3 mil a year, if not he makes the smart move for himself and his family and goes home.
 |
|
|
|
|
egami
Posts:5566
|
| 04/09/2008 7:06 AM |
Alert
|
| I think he'll leave because I think they'll flat out pony up more cash. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
Crit40
Posts:2600
|
| 04/09/2008 8:45 AM |
Alert
|
If Bill Self chooses to go back to OSU for a windfall, the pressure there is going to be huge for him to win right away. He will be pressured by the fans, he will be pressured by the press and he will be pressured by Boone Pickens. Not to say that the pressure at KU is any less.......just different.
There's something to be said about going home and not getting things done quick enough for the home fanbase. There's something different about getting chastized by your alma mater fans vs. fans of a school you chose to coach at.
Tough decision ahead for Self, but personally, I think he stays at KU. The OSU job will probably open up again in a few years.....and he can make the leap then if he chooses to, but I just don't think you leave a top 5 job for a top 50 job. |
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
egami
Posts:5566
|
| 04/09/2008 9:07 AM |
Alert
|
I don't know about that, necessarily...the bar at KU is now a national championship. The bar at OSU isn't going to be a national championship. Also, if KU ups his salary and he decides to stay there is that much more pressure on him staying at KU with little grace if he stumbles even one year.
|
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
Crit40
Posts:2600
|
| 04/09/2008 9:30 AM |
Alert
|
If you hire a NC coach, trust me, the bar is a NC. Right or wrong....that's the bar.
And I disagree about more pressure at KU. Different, but not more. He will continue to get the talent at KU to win NCs, just because it's KU. So when you have the talent, that's more than half the battle.
Roy Williams won 0 NC at KU. He was there for 15 years and could have been there for 15 more. Fans were upset that he left, and he hadn't given them a NC. One thing about most KU fans is that they are realistic. It's very difficult to win a NC in basketball.....especially these days with revolving door players.
Do you "expect" RR to bring a NC back to Michigan? I already know the answer and he isn't even a NC winning coach. |
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
egami
Posts:5566
|
| 04/09/2008 9:37 AM |
Alert
|
You can say that about the MN expectation being there, Crit, and it's going to be somewhat true, but when the NC is expected is going to be driven by other factors.
If he stays at KU, and gets a raise again, that is the bar and now the heightened pressure that comes with salary.
If he goes to OSU, he isn't going to be expected to win a NC year one or two and he's going to be given time to get his recruits through.
And, even if you're right about pressure KU, if KU would be so willing to hang on to Self as you speak there is no logical reasoning to suggest OSU is going to run him out any sooner putting up numbers similar to what he has at KU.
All I am saying is you can make just as plausible of a case that going to OSU, despite pay, actually is less pressure.
As far as RR goes...different issue, imo. I am not sure what you think my answer is, but what it should be is that any UM coach is going to have that expectation. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
Crit40
Posts:2600
|
| 04/09/2008 10:07 AM |
Alert
|
I guess all I am trying to say is that sometimes it is more difficult to go "home" and live up to certain expectations, especially considering the kind of money that has been reportedly available to Self at OSU.
Money = expectations. No question.
The key for me is your response "there is no logical reasoning to suggest OSU is going to run him out any sooner putting up numbers similar to what he has at KU."
I am suggesting to you that it is much easier to consistently put up those numbers at KU, simply because it's KU........home of the inventor of "the game". |
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
Bugeater
Posts:971
|
| 04/09/2008 10:17 AM |
Alert
|
| Personally, I hope he leaves just so I can watch KU fan melt down. |
|
|
|
|
egami
Posts:5566
|
| 04/09/2008 10:26 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By Crit40 on 04/09/2008 10:07 AM
I guess all I am trying to say is that sometimes it is more difficult to go "home" and live up to certain expectations, especially considering the kind of money that has been reportedly available to Self at OSU.
I think it stands to reason expectations will be high anywhere Self goes. I am just saying that I think there is an equally plausible argument that the pressure in KU is actually more.
Money = expectations. No question.
Money and success, I think.
The key for me is your response "there is no logical reasoning to suggest OSU is going to run him out any sooner putting up numbers similar to what he has at KU."
I am suggesting to you that it is much easier to consistently put up those numbers at KU, simply because it's KU........home of the inventor of "the game".
I already had acknowledged it was easier and that he'd be giving up the name brand of KU and the recruiting.
My response to that was that he's already demonstrated that he can achieve nearly that level of success at Illinois which has similar recruiting power as OSU.
And, I think now Self himself, having become more of a household name, will bring a significant amount of recruiting power. Not that that offsets the KU brand loss completely, but I think it offsets it enough for him to be successful at OSU if he chooses.
Personally, I think it's win-win. Either way I think he is fine. At the end of the day the guy can flat out coach and recruit. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
egami
Posts:5566
|
| 04/09/2008 10:26 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By Bugeater on 04/09/2008 10:17 AM
Personally, I hope he leaves just so I can watch KU fan melt down.
True.  |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
Crit40
Posts:2600
|
| 04/09/2008 10:36 AM |
Alert
|
I already had acknowledged it was easier and that he'd be giving up the name brand of KU and the recruiting.
You did? I missed it. Sorry. |
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
vranged
Posts:2896
|
| 04/09/2008 10:37 AM |
Alert
|
Considering the players Kansas is losing, it's reasonable to expect a significant drop-off next season. What if they only win 19 games ? Will the pressure and criticism in Lawrence, after Self signs a lucrative extension (which he's bound to get with the Cowboys pursuing him), be worth it, when he can win those same 19 games in Oklahoma State -- while making more money -- and not face as much criticism, due to the lower expectations? Plus, he'll be at home, which is a big plus .
Bottom line: if Pickens comes with the cash like I expect him to, I won't fault him for abandoning ship in Lawrence. I'll never fault anyone for seeking financial security. It's obvious they're trying to turn Oklahoma State into an elite collegiate athletic program -- and they have the resources to do it. Maybe Self wants to be a part of the turning point where it begins to happen.
I think he's coaching Oklahoma State next year, and I can't wait for the first time they go to Lawrence! |
|
After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
|
|
egami
Posts:5566
|
| 04/09/2008 10:41 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By Crit40 on 04/09/2008 10:36 AM I already had acknowledged it was easier and that he'd be giving up the name brand of KU and the recruiting. You did? I missed it. Sorry.
Oops, I guess not...I am in this same debate on another board.
At any rate, that's my stance on that aspect. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1209
|
| 04/09/2008 10:47 AM |
Alert
|
V...my only crticism of what you said here is the financial security issue. I mean, for God's sakes -- the guy is already making $1.5 million and is going to be getting a raise. How much money does a guy need to have to be "financially secure" anyway???
Of course, after Jim Valvano won his title at NC State, the signed him to a "lifetime" contract and canned him about a decade later.
Self's in a no-lose situation. Even if he does decide to stay at KU, doesn't live up to the expectations and eventually gets canned, he still has the phrase "coached Kansas to national championship" on his resume and he can achieve "financial security" anywhere he wants. And if he goes to OSU, he's going "home" and the expectations aren't near as high (then again, neither is the quality of the program) and he can "build" a program there.
I will say this -- Self will win a second national championship at KU. With their tradition and history of success, they will reach the summit again sooner rather than later. The question is -- can ANYBODY get Oklahoma State to the promised land? Some of the game's great coaches have tried (Henry Iba, Eddie Sutton, etc.) and failed.
Mega millions to coach a traditional power with high expectations, or mega millions to coach a traditional wannabe...seems an easy choice, I'd think...Self stays at KU. |
|
|
|
|
Crit40
Posts:2600
|
| 04/09/2008 10:48 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By vranged on 04/09/2008 10:37 AM
Considering the players Kansas is losing, it's reasonable to expect a significant drop-off next season. What if they only win 19 games ? Will the pressure and criticism in Lawrence, after Self signs a lucrative extension (which he's bound to get with the Cowboys pursuing him), be worth it, when he can win those same 19 games in Oklahoma State -- while making more money -- and not face as much criticism, due to the lower expectations? Plus, he'll be at home, which is a big plus .
Bottom line: if Pickens comes with the cash like I expect him to, I won't fault him for abandoning ship in Lawrence. I'll never fault anyone for seeking financial security. It's obvious they're trying to turn Oklahoma State into an elite collegiate athletic program -- and they have the resources to do it. Maybe Self wants to be a part of the turning point where it begins to happen.
I think he's coaching Oklahoma State next year, and I can't wait for the first time they go to Lawrence!
That scenario is true for everybody. K-State is going to lose Michael Beasley. UCLA will lose 3 guys. NC will lose a couple. The differece between K-State and the other mentioned is that "storied programs" reload. They will sign the top McDonalds All-Americans and will compete tough again next year.
I think Self does well where ever he goes, cause he is a solid coach. Just not sure he wins NCs at OSU like at KU.
|
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1209
|
| 04/09/2008 10:49 AM |
Alert
|
| He won't win NC's at OSU. He'll be a perennial Sweet 16 at best in Stillwater. |
|
|
|
|
egami
Posts:5566
|
| 04/09/2008 10:54 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By SeahawksSB42champs on 04/09/2008 10:49 AM
He won't win NC's at OSU. He'll be a perennial Sweet 16 at best in Stillwater.
Maybe. But I think you're being a bit close-minded to dismiss the possibility that easily.
OSU is building a facility to rival that of any in the NCAA. With Self at the helm recruiting will sky rocket further.
I compared his ability at OSU to what he's done with Illinois, but I think the fact is that if he goes to OSU with all things considered...he potentially puts them on the map as a power house basketball program. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
vranged
Posts:2896
|
| 04/09/2008 11:00 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By SeahawksSB42champs on 04/09/2008 10:47 AM
V...my only crticism of what you said here is the financial security issue. I mean, for God's sakes -- the guy is already making $1.5 million and is going to be getting a raise. How much money does a guy need to have to be "financially secure" anyway???
I guess I should have said "MORE financial security". For the most part, people work to make money. It's capitalism!!! If he can get a job where it pays him a bunch more, I'm not going to criticize.
|
|
After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
|
|