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TheCrusher
Posts:127
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| 10/03/2007 9:43 AM |
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Posted By egami on 10/03/2007 9:37 AM Posted By TheCrusher on 10/03/2007 9:30 AM
Rack him!
Jordan was a great althlete who used his fame to create wealth.
Robinson and Ali were great althletes who made social changes.
Look. I am a big Husker fan here. Been so since the the time when TO could not get his 'signature' win. However, things have changed on Stadium Drive and former players have to deal with that. Does it hurt when you go back and it is not all puppy kisses and chocolate ice cream? Sure, but that is the way it is.
This coaching staff has no obligation to hire former players as Grad Assistants. And for those who decry that this somehow shows Callahan does not do things the 'Nebraska Way', please tell me what that means. Bob Devaney is widely considered the architect of the 'Nebraska Way'. One of his most successful Grad Assistants was not a former NU player. Guy by the name of Tom. You might have heard about him. He is kind of a big deal around here.
Callahan, if he is here in 5 or 10 years, might hire some former players as GA's, but they will likely be players he knows. I would not be surprised if one of his first former player GA's is Zach Taylor. I also would not be surprised if another was Grix.
I also do not see what obligation the AD has to give 2 tickets to each player. This is a lot of people folks. It is not like 10 extra tickets. The 97 roster is probably--best guess--150 people. So, where are those tickets gonna come from? Not mine I can tell you. Exactly... On the Jordan note, however, my personal take...Jordan did transcend the game. Jordan's singular ability took basketball to a new level. Not merely because of his on court acheivement, but because he effected literally millions of kids in a generation that wanted to "be like Mike" and that difference in play is being seen today at all levels.
I cannot necessarily argue what you said. Jordan was a damn fine basketball player--no argument. In 91, the Lakers had the Bulls on the ropes early and Jordan simply shifted gears....and the rest is history.
And my point about Jordan creating wealth sounds a little more crass than I had intended. I am sure some of that wealth goes back into the community. However, I think his main motivation in much of what he does is wealth. And there is nothing wrong with that. However, he did nothing, in my estimation, to transcend the game.
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egami
Posts:5573
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| 10/03/2007 9:53 AM |
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It's depends on how you define it. To me, transcending the game is taking the game to another level and affecting the world outside your typical circle.
Go back historically and watch film of games in each decade, regardless of sport, and you'll see fundementally different games. Jordan was one of many historic players that perpetuated the game to another level of play and his style and persona perhaps arguably effected the game more than any single other player.
Magic Johnson was another one of those types of players. He was a phenom because he could play, at a professional level, all 5 positions.
There are iconic players in each sport that do this exact thing. Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Dale Earnhart, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Pele...consequently, they are usually the ones that also transcend the fan base and are known outside their sport in common households. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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TheCrusher
Posts:127
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| 10/03/2007 10:03 AM |
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Posted By egami on 10/03/2007 9:53 AM
It's depends on how you define it. To me, transcending the game is taking the game to another level and affecting the world outside your typical circle.
Go back historically and watch film of games in each decade, regardless of sport, and you'll see fundementally different games. Jordan was one of many historic players that perpetuated the game to another level of play and his style and persona perhaps arguably effected the game more than any single other player.
Magic Johnson was another one of those types of players. He was a phenom because he could play, at a professional level, all 5 positions.
There are iconic players in each sport that do this exact thing. Wayne Gretzky, Tiger Woods, Dale Earnhart, Hank Aaron, Willie Mays, Pele...consequently, they are usually the ones that also transcend the fan base and are known outside their sport in common households.
Ahh, yes, then I would agree by your definition. Transcend to me means doing something within the game that creates a large change outside of it. Perhaps someone could make some argument that he did that, but I have not seen it.
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egami
Posts:5573
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| 10/03/2007 10:11 AM |
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Posted By TheCrusher on 10/03/2007 10:03 AM
Ahh, yes, then I would agree by your definition. Transcend to me means doing something within the game that creates a large change outside of it. Perhaps someone could make some argument that he did that, but I have not seen it.
Yeah, it's really kind of subjective topic. Not many people individually completely transcend their sport independently from that sport-centric identity. Everything Jordan did outside of the sport was largely financially motivated for sure.
Then again you could say Adam "Pac Man" Jones or Michael Vick were able to do that at one level and that wouldn't be such a noteworthy accomplishment.  |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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TheCrusher
Posts:127
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| 10/03/2007 10:22 AM |
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Posted By egami on 10/03/2007 10:11 AM Posted By TheCrusher on 10/03/2007 10:03 AM
Ahh, yes, then I would agree by your definition. Transcend to me means doing something within the game that creates a large change outside of it. Perhaps someone could make some argument that he did that, but I have not seen it.
Yeah, it's really kind of subjective topic. Not many people individually completely transcend their sport independently from that sport-centric identity. Everything Jordan did outside of the sport was largely financially motivated for sure. Then again you could say Adam "Pac Man" Jones or Michael Vick were able to do that at one level and that wouldn't be such a noteworthy accomplishment.
Yea, no doubt
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vranged
Posts:2896
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| 10/03/2007 10:23 AM |
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For the sake of argument (imagine that) -- let me state that I don't think Hank Aaron is one of those players. I don't see Hank Aaron being someone that transcended the sport, like the other guys you mentioned. Yes, I know he broke baseball's most prestigious record. But he did that because he was consistently VERY VERY VERY good for an incredibly long time. He wasn't Willie Mays, or Babe Ruth, or Ted Williams, or Barry Bonds. He only won one MVP (if my memory serves me). He only hit 3 HRs in a game ONCE (which has always amazed me).
I'm saying his name belongs among the best, but I don't know that I'd say he transcended the sports.
This isn't something I'd debate until I was blue in the face (like other topics), but something that crossed my mind when I read this exchange. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5573
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| 10/03/2007 10:35 AM |
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Posted By vranged on 10/03/2007 10:23 AM
For the sake of argument (imagine that) -- let me state that I don't think Hank Aaron is one of those players. I don't see Hank Aaron being someone that transcended the sport, like the other guys you mentioned. Yes, I know he broke baseball's most prestigious record. But he did that because he was consistently VERY VERY VERY good for an incredibly long time. He wasn't Willie Mays, or Babe Ruth, or Ted Williams, or Barry Bonds. He only won one MVP (if my memory serves me). He only hit 3 HRs in a game ONCE (which has always amazed me).
I'm saying his name belongs among the best, but I don't know that I'd say he transcended the sports.
This isn't something I'd debate until I was blue in the face (like other topics), but something that crossed my mind when I read this exchange.
By my definition I think he did. Everyone knows who he was and I think he was iconic similar to Jordan for many black athletes especially.
He's also one of only three guys with 20-some odd All-Star appearances.
At any rate...I am not going to argue too much, but I think that what he did, especially for black athletes, would certainly qualify as transcending the game for what it was at its time.
No, he wasn't Jordan-esque in terms of performance, his example I listed was specifically more for the intangible effect he had on people outside of the game. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2896
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| 10/03/2007 10:54 AM |
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I'm talking performance only. His stature and importance were historic, and remain so. Maybe that's what "transcending" means, and I'm reaching. So, if as you said, it's about those intangibles, you're probably right.
I guess my point was (which may be distinguishable from yours), I don't think people ever watched him and were amazed. He didn't bring to the baseball field what Ali brought to the ring, or what Gretzsky brought to the ice, or what Jordan brought to the court. Maybe I'm having a different argument.
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5573
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| 10/03/2007 11:06 AM |
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Posted By egami on 10/03/2007 9:53 AM
To me, transcending the game is taking the game to another level and affecting the world outside your typical circle.
Yeah, this is what I stated and I can see where that was misleading...I was specifically trying to get a black athlete in there from that era that did a little of both, but specifically one that wasn't just centric on the on field accomplishments side of it.
Maybe Roberto Clemente would've been a better example for a minority aspect with significant off field achievements. I typed it off the top of my head. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Logan
Posts:2525
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| 10/03/2007 11:12 AM |
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| gee i wonder why d hasn't chimed in on this yet? perhaps it's a little too deep for him. one could say roger craig transcended in football by being the first player to have over 1000 yards rushing and receiving in the same season. he also tied a super bowl record by scoring 3 touchdowns. however, he isn't a household name like joe montana or jerry rice. |
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dwight, refuting reality one post at a time. |
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egami
Posts:5573
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| 10/03/2007 11:14 AM |
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Myabe if I call vranged a spineless, atheist, liberal intERmural?
(then he could make fun of my misspeling) |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Bugeater
Posts:971
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| 10/03/2007 6:43 PM |
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| OK, thanks to Jerome I just now found this thread. VJ sounds like he has a slight case of vaginitis over this, but in his defense when he talked about NU "getting" them hotel rooms, I don't know if that necessarily means them paying for them. |
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DMan
Posts:0
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| 10/03/2007 8:44 PM |
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Exactly...
On the Jordan note, however, my personal take...Jordan did transcend the game. Jordan's singular ability took basketball to a new level. Not merely because of his on court acheivement, but because he effected literally millions of kids in a generation that wanted to "be like Mike" and that difference in play is being seen today at all levels.
I cannot necessarily argue what you said. Jordan was a damn fine basketball player--no argument. In 91, the Lakers had the Bulls on the ropes early and Jordan simply shifted gears....and the rest is history.
And my point about Jordan creating wealth sounds a little more crass than I had intended. I am sure some of that wealth goes back into the community. However, I think his main motivation in much of what he does is wealth. And there is nothing wrong with that. However, he did nothing, in my estimation, to transcend the game.
Michael Jordan did not transcend the game of basketball? SlusherBoy you are as ignorant as a 17 year old in the Marine Corps boot camp.
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TheCrusher
Posts:127
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| 10/03/2007 11:15 PM |
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Posted By DMan on 10/03/2007 8:44 PM
Michael Jordan did not transcend the game of basketball? SlusherBoy you are as ignorant as a 17 year old in the Marine Corps boot camp.
Your game is weak. Please formulate some semblence of a response. You may want to begin by examining the definition of transcend. |
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reideen
Posts:279
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| 10/03/2007 11:27 PM |
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Posted By egami on 10/03/2007 10:11 AM Posted By TheCrusher on 10/03/2007 10:03 AM
Ahh, yes, then I would agree by your definition. Transcend to me means doing something within the game that creates a large change outside of it. Perhaps someone could make some argument that he did that, but I have not seen it.
Yeah, it's really kind of subjective topic. Not many people individually completely transcend their sport independently from that sport-centric identity. Everything Jordan did outside of the sport was largely financially motivated for sure.
Michael really didn't have much of a choice but to use his influence outside the sport to create wealth. Juanita was a cold, heartless b!tch. I was a supervisor with CommEd for a number of years while he was with the Bulls. I handled their account quite a bit. $7 - $10k per month in electric bills isn't something I'd be able to afford. They'd go 2 or 3 months without paying, she'd call in like she was the queen and we'd waive fees, etc and take the payment like everything was fine. There were reps who reported to me who didn't handle her calls to her expectations. They didn't stay on with the company long....
Not to mention, he had his own addictions to deal with. |
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egami
Posts:5573
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| 10/04/2007 7:50 AM |
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Posted By reideen on 10/03/2007 11:27 PM Posted By egami on 10/03/2007 10:11 AM Posted By TheCrusher on 10/03/2007 10:03 AM
Ahh, yes, then I would agree by your definition. Transcend to me means doing something within the game that creates a large change outside of it. Perhaps someone could make some argument that he did that, but I have not seen it.
Yeah, it's really kind of subjective topic. Not many people individually completely transcend their sport independently from that sport-centric identity. Everything Jordan did outside of the sport was largely financially motivated for sure. Michael really didn't have much of a choice but to use his influence outside the sport to create wealth. Juanita was a cold, heartless b!tch. I was a supervisor with CommEd for a number of years while he was with the Bulls. I handled their account quite a bit. $7 - $10k per month in electric bills isn't something I'd be able to afford. They'd go 2 or 3 months without paying, she'd call in like she was the queen and we'd waive fees, etc and take the payment like everything was fine. There were reps who reported to me who didn't handle her calls to her expectations. They didn't stay on with the company long.... Not to mention, he had his own addictions to deal with.
I wasn't saying it was wrong. I am just saying there is a lot of truth to that fact.
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Crit40
Posts:2602
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| 10/04/2007 10:40 AM |
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Posted By reideen on 10/03/2007 11:27 PM Posted By egami on 10/03/2007 10:11 AM Posted By TheCrusher on 10/03/2007 10:03 AM
Ahh, yes, then I would agree by your definition. Transcend to me means doing something within the game that creates a large change outside of it. Perhaps someone could make some argument that he did that, but I have not seen it.
Yeah, it's really kind of subjective topic. Not many people individually completely transcend their sport independently from that sport-centric identity. Everything Jordan did outside of the sport was largely financially motivated for sure. Michael really didn't have much of a choice but to use his influence outside the sport to create wealth. Juanita was a cold, heartless b!tch. I was a supervisor with CommEd for a number of years while he was with the Bulls. I handled their account quite a bit. $7 - $10k per month in electric bills isn't something I'd be able to afford. They'd go 2 or 3 months without paying, she'd call in like she was the queen and we'd waive fees, etc and take the payment like everything was fine. There were reps who reported to me who didn't handle her calls to her expectations. They didn't stay on with the company long.... Not to mention, he had his own addictions to deal with.
I wonder if they still have a copy of their "privacy notice". 
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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vranged
Posts:2896
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| 10/04/2007 11:19 AM |
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What athletes have transcended sports altogether? Who are the select few whose names could be identified almost anywhere in the world?
My list (in order of importance, in my opinion): Muhammed Ali, Michael Jordan, Babe Ruth, Tiger Woods, OJ Simpson, Barry Bonds. That's the complete list, in my estimation.
The guys I would have on the bubble, but not quite on the same level as the above guys (in no particular order): Joe Montana, Wayne Gretzsky, Hank Aaron, Jack Nicklaus, Wilt Chamberlain, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Shaquille O'Neal, Willie Mays, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio.
Another tier behind these guys would be: Cal Ripken, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, LeBron James, Ted Williams, Arnold Palmer, Mike Tyson, Charles Barkley, Kobe Bryant.
As I put this subjective list together off the top of my head, I'm sure I'm missing some people worthy of being on at least one of the lists. Any comments? |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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vranged
Posts:2896
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| 10/04/2007 11:25 AM |
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Let me do this another way. I'll rank, in my opinion, the most "famous" athletes of the last century. Since I see I forgot Pele in my original list, I need to add him. And I don't like OJ that high, so I'm dropping him.
Again, all subjective. Where am I right? Where am I wrong? I guess Pele could be argued to be No. 1, from a worldwide perspective.
1. Muhammed Ali
2. Michael Jordan
3. Babe Ruth
4. Pele
5. Barry Bonds
6. Wayne Gretzky
7. OJ Simpson
8. Jack Nicklaus
9. Magic Johnson
10. Joe DiMaggio
11. Shaquille O'Neal
12. Larry Bird
13. Wilt Chamberlain
14. Diego Maradonna
15. Mickey Mantle
16. Willie Mays
17. Arnold Palmer
18. Mike Tyson
19. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
20. Joe Montana |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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Logan
Posts:2525
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| 10/04/2007 11:27 AM |
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| does billy jean king deserve to be on that list? |
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dwight, refuting reality one post at a time. |
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