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Crit40
Posts:2483
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| 08/22/2007 8:20 PM |
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I think that if you go pheasant hunting and there are no pheasants, its ok to shoot your buddy's golden retriever, as long as it's running and you shoot him on the fly. Otherwise there is just no sport involved in it.
Also, if you catch your neighbor's cat in your yard, its open season for some feline stew. But you have to use a 22 caliber rifle and not a shotgun.
Also, if you're really hungry and there is no steakhouse around, go to the nearest feedlot and shoot your own steak. Mmmmm. Nothing like a fresh piece of beef that didn't see it coming.
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/22/2007 9:13 PM |
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Posted By vranged on 08/22/2007 3:59 PM
Your words: "He could have simply tortured animals quietly in his basement a la Jeffrey Dahmer."
Then what was the purpose of bringing him up, if not for some sort of comparison?
Now you're just being deliberately obtuse and taking things out of context.
That statement is prefaced: No, I don't think he was just in it for the pain in such a simplistic, twisted way that he got off on torturing animals. He could have simply tortured animals quietly in his basement a la Jeffrey Dahmer.
I am saying he could of been doing things far worse and deliberately twisted if that were his intent. You're right..it's contrast to someone he was not, not a comparison to someone he was like.
Back to the point...
The average person will acknowledge the difference between killing animals for food and deliberately electrocuting, drowning and throwing animals to the ground even though you don't acknowledge the difference.
Most people do not see that as hypocritical because the intent of the actions are completely different. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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IrememberDukester
Posts:2404
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| 08/22/2007 9:41 PM |
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Posted By egami on 08/22/2007 3:10 PM
No, I don't think he was just in it for the pain in such a simplistic, twisted way that he got off on torturing animals. He could have simply tortured animals quietly in his basement a la Jeffrey Dahmer.
But he obviously enjoyed watching the fights and a large part of the fights is the deliberate pain and suffering of the animals. Pain and suffering is what defines those fights. The very act of a fight in and of itself is considered cruelty.
I think it's a rather clear distinction versus slaughtering animals for dinner. Enjoy your steak...medium rare.
You're not far off in comparing this to an exploit of Jeffrey Dahmer, most scientific studies show that serial killers most always started out torturing and killing animals then moved up the food chain!
I myself would put nothing past Mikey or his brother considering their track record.
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/23/2007 7:30 AM |
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Dukester, first off, they aren't parallel in comparison. There is major psychological difference between someone like Dahmer that sought satisfaction and enjoyment from torturing animals and someone like Vick who viewed his actions as merely entertaining.
However, you're right in that fundementally there is little difference in the action. But to go out and put Vick on a Dahmer level is just not comperable. Like I said, if he were into that kind of thing he wouldn't of been in a social setting even if it is a somewhat underground and secretive social setting.
Vick's actions from a psychological level are more in line with that of a high school age kid who simply is acting out to be accepted in their social circle. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/23/2007 9:54 AM |
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P The average person will acknowledge the difference between killing animals for food and deliberately electrocuting, drowning and throwing animals to the ground even though you don't acknowledge the difference.
If this is all about the right way to treat an animal, then what's the difference between killing a cow and killing a dog, regardless of intent? They're both dead. Both animals were treated pretty poorly, in that they're dead.
Society likes steak, so it's acceptable. But it's still killing a cow. It's still taking a living thing and killing it, like what Mike Vick did. So, I'm not going to be upset about it.
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/23/2007 10:03 AM |
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Because, vranged, that's not all this is about. It's not just about the death anyway...it's about the blatent cruelty being done to the animal.
You are too hung up on the death aspect. Take that out of the equation and tell me there is nothing wrong with raping, eloctrocuting, torturing and slamming dogs to the ground. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/23/2007 10:50 AM |
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Damn right I'm hung up on the death aspect of it. That's the end result for all of them.
Have you seen how calves are raised/processed for veal? Are you saying that's not cruel? Please tell me you're not. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/23/2007 11:58 AM |
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Then you are in a small boat with that view.
Death is not cruelty. It's merely a result.
And, yes, I've worked in that industry. No, I do not think the process is "cruel" and I've already addressed this previously in the thread.
Not that there aren't plants doing things outside what is acceptable, but then again...documentaries often narrowly focus in on the ones that are in violation as a representation for the industry as a whole. I'd wager you've never actually seen the process first hand.
Regardless, you are ignoring the main point of it which the majority of society holds, so there is no use dragging this on because you will not convince me to see it in your hypocitical, narrow-minded way. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/23/2007 1:53 PM |
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Hallelujah! Praise Jesus, Mithra and Oprah Winfrey! It only took two threads, and about 50 posts, but you finally were able to figure out my point (even though it's been clearly articulated throughout).
I know all too well, since it was my ENTIRE POINT OF CONTENTION FROM THE BEGINNING, that society holds it differently than I do. As stated multiple times (and apparently ignored by you), society's view is inconsistent and hypocritical. Just because killing pigs, cows and chickens in a slaughterhouse is hidden, and never in-your-face (and results in pleasure for the masses), it's acceptable. But because puppies are cute, and fetch the paper, killing them is not, when in the end -- you have the same dead animal. That's inconsistent. That's convenient, selfish hypocrisy.
For you to say "you are ignoring the main point of it which the majority of society holds" seriously deserves a 'stupid slap' across your face. Your lightning-quick deduction skills are truly something to behold.
Good God, egami. It's amazing that you had the balls to type that when I've said so many times that my problem is with society's view of the matter. How the fck can I ignore something that I've repeated about a dozen times?
Now, let's see what you do best. Spin control. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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Logan
Posts:2525
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| 08/23/2007 3:06 PM |
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Posted By vranged on 08/23/2007 1:53 PM
Hallelujah! Praise Jesus, Mithra and Oprah Winfrey!
div>
it's scary to think how many brainless housewives there are out there that think oprah is a diety. i'm sure oprah doesn't mind though. another thing i'm sure she doesn't mind is a cow being butchered and slapped down in front of her. i'll never forget the man show skit where kimmel is oprah crapping cup cakes. |
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dwight, refuting reality one post at a time. |
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Crit40
Posts:2483
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| 08/23/2007 3:35 PM |
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Are these dogs they are fighting Pit Bulls?
I changed my mind. Let 'em fight. |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/24/2007 7:08 AM |
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The point is, vranged, you are the one who has the hypocritical view.
And you are wrong. Animal cruelty does not revolve around death of animals. It laregly plays in the treatment of animals.
You are calling out society as hypocrits, yet you're the one who believes any type of animal death is cruelty and eats steak.
Forgive me for not thinking you could possibly be so stupid...I should know better. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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tommy
Posts:23
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| 08/24/2007 7:12 AM |
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The NFL should suspend him for a season, which he should spend behind bars, take 60% post tax of his earnings and donate it to the Humane Society until his contract is up. Jail time would mean nothing to him, dent his wallet and he may learn a lesson  |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/24/2007 7:16 AM |
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Posted By tommy on 08/24/2007 7:12 AM The NFL should suspend him for a season, which he should spend behind bars, take 60% post tax of his earnings and donate it to the Humane Society until his contract is up. Jail time would mean nothing to him, dent his wallet and he may learn a lesson
Suspended one year after his prison sentence is up. Don't allow the suspension to be concurrent with the prison time. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/24/2007 9:19 AM |
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"Vranged: Society is hypocrtical. Society is inconsistent. Society only allows the killing of cows, chickens and pigs because the results are pleasing to them. I don't like the way society thinks on this.
Egami: But you're ignoring what society thinks."
That's seriously what just happened. And I'm stupid, egami? That's pretty laughable. I'll let the posts speak for themselves. You don't even know what you're saying anymore.
And, ONCE A FRICKIN GAIN, your lightning-quick deduction skills have come into play. You called me hypocritical -- the same thing I've already called myself. I've acknowledged being somewhat hypocritical, but I'm not blasting Vick, so I'm not in denial (unlike those on their soapboxes who eat steak, i.e. you). The societal outcry has been the point from the beginning (yet you said I ignored what society thinks....LMAO!!!)That was the entire point. Where did your reading comprehension skills go? I acknowledged my hypocricy. Now it's your turn, but you won't, because apparently death isn't cruel.
Speaking of which: Death for the pleasure of others is not cruel? Death is not cruel? I don't even know how to respond to such nonsense.
Wow -- I thought you were a smart guy. Apparently, I gave you too much credit. Did Florida Joe hijack your account? And for you to call me stupid.....funny stuff. You can't even read a sentence, and know what it means.
What's your next comeback going to be? "Maybe if you ate steak, you'd understand." That's seriously the depths of idiocy I'm expecting. Don't disappoint. Better yet, just stop responding. Your reputation as a halfway-intelligent person is circling the drain. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/24/2007 10:05 AM |
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That is blantent mispresentation of my reply. That reply did not go with that comment.
Talk about intellectually bankrupt. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/24/2007 10:09 AM |
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Posted By egami on 08/24/2007 7:08 AM
The point is, vranged, you are the one who has the hypocritical view.
And you are wrong. Animal cruelty does not revolve around death of animals. It laregly plays in the treatment of animals.
You are calling out society as hypocrits, yet you're the one who believes any type of animal death is cruelty and eats steak.
Forgive me for not thinking you could possibly be so stupid...I should know better.
Back on track. You are trying to derail the thread now that I've demonstrated you are the blatent hypocrit and ignore the facts around the definition of cruelty.
You are re-defining words then calling out everyone else for being a hypocrit.
Meanwhile, you believe:
A. Any animal death caused by man is cruelty.
B. You enjoy animal products.
And that is the very hypocrisy you lead me to believe everyone else is guilty of...
Granted, PETA and certain activists are hypocrtical in their views, but not the everyday average American that enjoys beef yet finds Vick's actions repulsive. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/24/2007 10:37 AM |
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Dude, you just don't get it. Your reading comprehension skills have apparently taken the week off. I can't dumb it down anymore than I have. You choose not to understand.
I didn't misrepresent a Goddamn thing. I've said I'm hypocritical, but not in denial about it. You call me hypocritical. WHAT?????????? I've said it's a societal issue that I'm upset about. You say I ignore what society says. WHAT?????? Don't say I mispresented something, when I did no such thing. That was obviously your cop-out of a response, b/c you know you've painted yourself in a corner.
As for me being intellectually bankrupt...I'm speechless on that one. You make something up (i.e. that I'm misrepresenting your exact words) to come to that conclusion? That took BALLS, my ignorant friend.
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/24/2007 10:43 AM |
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You being a hypocrit is just icing on the cake.
You're blatent stupidity in redefining words to label others hypocrits is the real treat.
Anytime you use factually incorrect definitions of words you misrepresent things. That's what you did. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/24/2007 10:58 AM |
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Posted By egami on 08/24/2007 10:43 AM
You being a hypocrit is just icing on the cake.
You're blatent stupidity in redefining words to label others hypocrits is the real treat.
Anytime you use factually incorrect definitions of words you misrepresent things. That's what you did.
While the irony of you repeatedly misspelling "hypocrite" is delightful, and your Florida Joe-esque misuse of YOU'RE v. YOUR notwithstanding, you've completely lost it. You say death isn't cruel. Death is cruel. There's no such thing as "animal homicide". The mere fact that animal cruelty, by definition, includes their death proves my definition is clearly defined. What's your spin on that?
I've only mispresented things in your feeble little mind. You'll catch up....hopefully.
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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