egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/20/2007 2:28 PM |
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Yes.
When you are playing top 10 ranked teams and losing by 2 TD's or less then that is playing competatively. Making it into the top 25 rankings is playing at a competative level. He's turned a program around that Solich sent into a tailspin. It's not going to be fixed overnight.
And, certainly, anyone would be foolish to expect a turnaround more quickly than that and to a level of previous dominance.
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Logan
Posts:2525
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| 08/20/2007 2:41 PM |
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| doesn't frankie have more bowl victories, conference championships, victories against ranked opponents and higher overall finishes than beau? if beau wins a bowl game this year, which i highly doubt, then one can say beau has them playing at a competitive level. |
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dwight, refuting reality one post at a time. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/20/2007 3:10 PM |
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If Frankie was so valuable and indispensable why did he end up at Ohio instead of a more respectable D1 force? Because respectable D1 schools understood that much of Solich's success was due to his predecessor and those recruits. Just as many people understand that Solich left pretty much nothing for Callahan.
Think about it...if Solish was truly so valuable to the program that he should of never been let go then some quality D1 program would of snatched him up in a hurry. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Crit40
Posts:2483
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| 08/20/2007 4:44 PM |
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Posted By egami on 08/20/2007 3:10 PM
Think about it...if Solush was truly so valuable to the program that he should of never been let go then some quality D1 program would of snatched him up in a hurry.
I fixed it for ya! |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Logan
Posts:2525
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| 08/20/2007 4:49 PM |
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Posted By egami on 08/20/2007 3:10 PM
If Frankie was so valuable and indispensable why did he end up at Ohio instead of a more respectable D1 force? Because respectable D1 schools understood that much of Solich's success was due to his predecessor and those recruits. Just as many people understand that Solich left pretty much nothing for Callahan.
Think about it...if Solish was truly so valuable to the program that he should of never been let go then some quality D1 program would of snatched him up in a hurry.
i don't recall a lot of "quality" job openings at that time. i also don't recall saying frankie should have stayed. i just said his record is better than beau's. |
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dwight, refuting reality one post at a time. |
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Crit40
Posts:2483
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| 08/20/2007 5:29 PM |
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The landscape of college football had changed so much at the time, and THAT is why Osborne decided to hang it up. He knew he was going to have to change his offensive way of thinking if he was going to remain a competetive program. THAT meant that he would have to fire his longtime comrad Frank Solich, to go to a more pass happy, fast-paced offense. Dr. Tom chose to hang it up and let the remaining chips fall as they did.
Really sort of a genius. He escaped without having to fire his buddy, allowing him to fail on his own.
And that is why there were no jobs for Frank. All he knew at the time was the Option based offense. |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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DMan
Posts:0
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| 08/21/2007 10:06 AM |
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Logan,
While I've actually grown to have a degree of respect for you. I don't even give your takes on Sker football a second look. They are always hyper-critical and filled with Adolph Perrault-like hate. Rational give-and-take are not possible under those circumstances. So I withhold an opinion here. Let's just say I disagree. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/21/2007 11:46 AM |
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Posted By Logan on 08/20/2007 4:49 PM Posted By egami on 08/20/2007 3:10 PM
If Frankie was so valuable and indispensable why did he end up at Ohio instead of a more respectable D1 force? Because respectable D1 schools understood that much of Solich's success was due to his predecessor and those recruits. Just as many people understand that Solich left pretty much nothing for Callahan.
Think about it...if Solish was truly so valuable to the program that he should of never been let go then some quality D1 program would of snatched him up in a hurry. i don't recall a lot of "quality" job openings at that time. i also don't recall saying frankie should have stayed. i just said his record is better than beau's.
You claimed that he was 'righting the ship when he got shanghaied' or whatever.
If you call running the team on the fumes of the previous coach, and not stopping to fill the tank up, 'righting the ship' then there really isn't any need to take your position seriously on the topic.
It's an undeniable fact that the Solich era left Nebraska talent starved in recruiting.
It took Callahan a couple years to right that wrong. It's not his fault he actually had to build a team from scratch and wasn't handed the golden baton from his predecessor like Solich was.
While you never flat out said you think Frankie should of stayed, but the way you phrased your first reply there is no reason for anyone to think otherwise.
Arizona, Duke, Cincinnatti, Army...no, nothing overly wonderful that year, but any of those are arguably better. Arizona for sure would be. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Logan
Posts:2525
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| 08/21/2007 12:43 PM |
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| 7-7 to 9-4 isn't righting the ship? according to earlier posts it is for beau. frankie brought in new o and d coordinators to even make improvements and big barney had upgraded to a more modern offense. yes they were still using similar formations and the option was still a part of it but there were also several changes to better maximize the passing game. i think pelini could have done some great things with that defense given another year. |
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dwight, refuting reality one post at a time. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/21/2007 12:55 PM |
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Not when 9 of those were non-ranked, or weakly ranked, teams and the 4 were higher ranked teams.
You know, similarly to what you are criticizing Callahan about last season? Those two years are ironically almost identical. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Lawdawg
Posts:4
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| 08/21/2007 4:34 PM |
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The talent level was horrible that was left for Bill. When frank had his first meeting with Peterson on his recruiting class, Peterson handed him a list of the top 100 recruits in the country. He was asked which guys were on the fence, who have committed and which one sthey were going after. Franks comments were none of them. The meeting wrapped up shortly after that.(This came pretty close from the source)
If you look at the past recruits during Franks tenure it speaks for itself.
Pelini would not have stayed - just look at his record. We want someone long term - not someone who is at 3 jobs in 4 years.
There was a interview the other day with a pro football player that played for Callahan and basically said that the game has changed so much that NE got left behind with talent since they did not have a offense that was pro style and had no experience going after those kids. So when Bill came he had to do best with what we had.
Unless your blind you can tell a big difference in talent from Frank's (not TO's) kids and the current kids that are here now. When a porgram has stepped back as much as we did it is going to take some time to get back on top. And forget Franks last season - it was a very weak schedule and the teams we should have at least been competitive with or beat we got BLOWN out.
Let the Frank era finally die or give up on the Huskers and become a OHIO fan. We don't need you. |
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IrememberDukester
Posts:2404
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| 08/21/2007 4:38 PM |
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Posted By egami on 08/21/2007 11:46 AM Posted By Logan on 08/20/2007 4:49 PM Posted By egami on 08/20/2007 3:10 PM
If Frankie was so valuable and indispensable why did he end up at Ohio instead of a more respectable D1 force? Because respectable D1 schools understood that much of Solich's success was due to his predecessor and those recruits. Just as many people understand that Solich left pretty much nothing for Callahan.
Think about it...if Solish was truly so valuable to the program that he should of never been let go then some quality D1 program would of snatched him up in a hurry. i don't recall a lot of "quality" job openings at that time. i also don't recall saying frankie should have stayed. i just said his record is better than beau's. You claimed that he was 'righting the ship when he got shanghaied' or whatever. If you call running the team on the fumes of the previous coach, and not stopping to fill the tank up, 'righting the ship' then there really isn't any need to take your position seriously on the topic. It's an undeniable fact that the Solich era left Nebraska talent starved in recruiting. It took Callahan a couple years to right that wrong. It's not his fault he actually had to build a team from scratch and wasn't handed the golden baton from his predecessor like Solich was. While you never flat out said you think Frankie should of stayed, but the way you phrased your first reply there is no reason for anyone to think otherwise. Arizona, Duke, Cincinnatti, Army...no, nothing overly wonderful that year, but any of those are arguably better. Arizona for sure would be.
If memory serves me correctly, their are recruits during Frankies era who made it to the NFL.
Are you insinuating that those athletes were not a talented bunch, as Husker Nation has paid homage to more than a few of them?
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Lawdawg
Posts:4
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| 08/21/2007 4:59 PM |
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| Franks kids he recruited were much less in the NFL than TO's kids Frank coached. Big difference. |
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Blackshirt
Posts:586
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| 08/21/2007 5:10 PM |
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Frank's biggest mistake at NU? Not cutting the dead weight on his staff soon enough.
As for Callahan, he's generally acknowledged for his recruiting work. But can he coach those recruits to the highest level or is he just another Ron Zook. That has yet to be decided.
This year's schedule gives him the opportunity to show that he's not another Zook. |
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"Perhaps the worst thing that can happen is to reach into the refrigerator and come out with something that you cannot identify at all. You literally do not know what it is. Could be meat, could be cake. Usually, at a time like that, I'll bluff. "Honey, is this good?" "Well, what is it?" "I don't know. I've never seen anything like it. It looks like...meatcake!" "Well, smell it." (snort, sniff) "It has absolutely no smell whatsoever!" "It's good! Put it back! Somebody is saving it. It'll turn up in something." Thats what frightens me. That someone will consider it a challenge and use it just because it's in there." -- George Carlin |
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Bugeater
Posts:971
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| 08/22/2007 12:28 AM |
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Posted By Lawdawg on 08/21/2007 4:34 PM
The talent level was horrible that was left for Bill. When frank had his first meeting with Peterson on his recruiting class, Peterson handed him a list of the top 100 recruits in the country. He was asked which guys were on the fence, who have committed and which one sthey were going after. Franks comments were none of them. The meeting wrapped up shortly after that.(This came pretty close from the source)
If you look at the past recruits during Franks tenure it speaks for itself.
Pelini would not have stayed - just look at his record. We want someone long term - not someone who is at 3 jobs in 4 years.
There was a interview the other day with a pro football player that played for Callahan and basically said that the game has changed so much that NE got left behind with talent since they did not have a offense that was pro style and had no experience going after those kids. So when Bill came he had to do best with what we had.
Unless your blind you can tell a big difference in talent from Frank's (not TO's) kids and the current kids that are here now. When a porgram has stepped back as much as we did it is going to take some time to get back on top. And forget Franks last season - it was a very weak schedule and the teams we should have at least been competitive with or beat we got BLOWN out.
Let the Frank era finally die or give up on the Huskers and become a OHIO fan. We don't need you.
Did you copy and paste that from bigredboard.com? |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/22/2007 7:33 AM |
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Posted By IrememberDukester on 08/21/2007 4:38 PM If memory serves me correctly, their are recruits during Frankies era who made it to the NFL. Are you insinuating that those athletes were not a talented bunch, as Husker Nation has paid homage to more than a few of them?
I've provided historic fact that shows Nebraska recruiting AS A WHOLE was down during the transition to Callahan. They had slipped to 40th overall behind teams like Missouri, Ole Miss and NC State.
You can shoot from the hip with facts that aren't backed up, but my point stands.
Quite frankly, even if you are right, your point doesn't address the situation.
I don't care how good of a coach you are if you can't recruit in the top 10 or 15 consistantly you will not win at the highest level consistantly. Coaching may be the meat of the program, but recruiting is the foundation of the program.
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/22/2007 8:29 AM |
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Posted By Blackshirt on 08/21/2007 5:10 PM
Frank's biggest mistake at NU? Not cutting the dead weight on his staff soon enough.
Well, how could he justify that? He had one 7-7 year. I don't see how he could have done it sooner.
And still, that wouldn't resolve the recruiting problem which to me seems like was his biggest downfall. Really, the guy was a decent coach from an x and o standpoint.
Posted By Blackshirt on 08/21/2007 5:10 PM
As for Callahan, he's generally acknowledged for his recruiting work. But can he coach those recruits to the highest level or is he just another Ron Zook. That has yet to be decided.
This year's schedule gives him the opportunity to show that he's not another Zook.
I agree wholeheartedly that this aspect of Callahan is not fully settled. His coaching decision at USC was questionable last year, but even outside of that he hasn't shown brilliance yet at the college level.
The way I look at it, his recruiting efforts and progress to get them back to where they are now should merit him at least another 3 years to answer that question.
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Tim in Omaha
Posts:655
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| 08/22/2007 9:28 AM |
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Posted By Logan on 08/20/2007 4:49 PM Posted By egami on 08/20/2007 3:10 PM
If Frankie was so valuable and indispensable why did he end up at Ohio instead of a more respectable D1 force? Because respectable D1 schools understood that much of Solich's success was due to his predecessor and those recruits. Just as many people understand that Solich left pretty much nothing for Callahan.
Think about it...if Solish was truly so valuable to the program that he should of never been let go then some quality D1 program would of snatched him up in a hurry. i don't recall a lot of "quality" job openings at that time. i also don't recall saying frankie should have stayed. i just said his record is better than beau's.
Teams that had coaching changes 2004
Army
BYU
East Carolina
Florida
Illinois
Indiana
LSU
Marshall
Miami (Ohio)
Mississippi
New Mexico St.
Notre Dame
Ohio
Okalahoma St
Pitt
San Jose State
South Carolina
Stanford
Syracuse
Utah
Utah State
Washington
Western Mich
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Cornhuskers the winningest college football program of the last 50 years, both by winning percentage and number of wins.
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Lawdawg
Posts:4
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| 08/22/2007 10:14 AM |
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Bugeater, No I got this pretty close to the horses mouth. As for Frank cutting dead weight earlier it is widely known that Frank wanted to hire some new coaches but TO wanted him to keep guys in place. You need your own guys, for respect and to work hard. Our coaches we spoiled after TO and the championships and did not get out there and get the kids - they felt they should come to us. thye have said this publicly. I am not a huge Callahan fan but we did need the change. How can you coach and change to a more pro style offense when you have ZERO experience with one.
Bill has at least brought the talent level up and his decsions in coaching have gotten better as he has learned and grown in the college game. Should we get rid of him now? It would put the program in such a huge tail spin it might never recover. This year will be a tale telling year - he has the best guys he ahs had since he has been here so we will see how he does at the end of the year. |
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Logan
Posts:2525
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| 08/22/2007 11:35 AM |
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| at the end of the year sker nation will be dissapointed. |
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dwight, refuting reality one post at a time. |
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