SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1143
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| 02/13/2008 1:34 PM |
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Seems Kelvin Sampson and the Indiana basketball program is under investigation regarding "illegal" phone calls made by Sampson and his coaching staff to potential recruits.
So my question is: when it comes to determining just how big a bunch of morons the powers that be at Indiana University are, is hiring a cheater like Sampson with little or no quality coaching resume to speak of dumber than firing a legend, albeit a jerk of one, like Bob Knight? |
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egami
Posts:5038
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| 02/13/2008 1:39 PM |
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You know, the first words out of my mouth when I heard that hire were "they are going to regret this".
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Go Blue! |
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Crit40
Posts:2332
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| 02/14/2008 8:07 AM |
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| Hasn't Sampson had problems in the past with the NCAA? What the hell were they thinking? Oh yeah, not surrendering the Big 10 to the likes of Michigan State, Ohio State, Wisconsin and Illinois. |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Omahan
Posts:3232
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| 02/14/2008 6:11 PM |
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Some believe Sampson went running out of Norman with all his HIDDEN garbage that would've been incriminating.
Knight was a clean, solid coach in that way. We all know the rest of the story there. |
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Omahan
Posts:3232
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| 02/18/2008 4:08 PM |
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While Sampson actions are pure idiocy. IMO this is another example of the NCAA and their Hitler-like control of coaches.
It was phone calls. Phone calls can cost a coach his job.
I am an advocate of following the rules, but sometimes the overall intent of the rule itself must be questioned.
This is one of those cases IMO. |
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egami
Posts:5038
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| 02/19/2008 8:08 AM |
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| What are you talking about? Sampson had sanctions against him because he previously broke rules. He is largely in trouble not just for violating standard NCAA rules, but for violating additional sanctions specifically against him for his previous actions. Those sanctions don't exist across the board for all coaches. |
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Go Blue! |
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Omahan
Posts:3232
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| 02/19/2008 8:12 AM |
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He is in trouble for calling recruits while at Oklahoma outside of the normal calling period. It is widely discussed and most are in agreement that the NCAA is again to harsh in their stance.
Phone calls? I agree they should be monitored to some degree. Question is: Should a coach be at risk with his employ as a result of making a phone call?
I say no.
The shame of Sampson's downward spiral is that he didn't need to make improper phone calls to be successful. He never lacked coaching skills nor recruiting skills. |
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egami
Posts:5038
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| 02/19/2008 8:31 AM |
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The topic of the thread is Sampson at Indiana, so you failed to specify you were strictly talking about what Sampson got in trouble for the first time which still doesn't make sense.
However, like I said, what Sampson is in trouble for now is violating sanctions above and beyond what is placed on normal coaches.
As to whether or not NCAA violations are too strict...I don't think that belief is as readily held by D1 coaches as you may think, but you haven't made your case for that aspect so it's hard to tell what you even mean by it.
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Omahan
Posts:3232
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| 02/19/2008 8:36 AM |
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It was clear to me that I was angling this dead thread towards Sampson and the severity of his punishment versus his actions.
What is clear is that you are developing an axe with me and are nitpicking for a disagreement angle.
Give it a rest and voice your opinion. That's all I care about. I was listening to Stephen A Smith yesterday talk about the Sampson particulars. His position was the punishment doesnt match the crime.
I happen to agree. Enough english in that post to make my intentions clear? |
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egami
Posts:5038
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| 02/19/2008 8:45 AM |
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We're how many replies into this now and you've yet to clarify exactly what NCAA ruling you have an issue with other than vague references to phone calling.
And you're asking me to make my point? I can't address a point that hasn't been made. I lead the first reply off for a question for a reason...that being that you are largely making no specific point.
As for the severity of punishment for his actions at Oklahoma...no, I think the punishment was overall incredibly inconsequential. It was frankly a slap on the wrist for what was documented as 500+ violations with about 15 or so recruits.
And it needs to be clear here we're not talking about just ANY coach...we're talking about a coach who has served on an ethics committee specifically dealing with NCAA recruiting violations back in 2003, so it's quite ironic that he'd be reprimanded by the very committee he headed at one time regarding the most important subject that committee addressed.
If anything, that makes him more culpable. |
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Omahan
Posts:3232
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| 02/19/2008 8:54 AM |
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Ask yourself this question? What is Kelvin Sampson in trouble for?
Once you answer that question you will have the answer you are asking me.
Focus and roll. For you to act as if you always stay on the original topic is preposterous. Take your gaurd down or don't respond. I was looking for someone who had interest in the Sampson debacle.
Not debating mute intangibles. |
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Crit40
Posts:2332
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| 02/19/2008 9:09 AM |
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| I certainly think that coaches and schools that circumvent the rules multiple times get a little shorter rope each time. |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Omahan
Posts:3232
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| 02/19/2008 9:15 AM |
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Specifically, what Sampson is guilty of is poor judgement and not holding himself and his staff accountable.
But, what they are being scolded and punished for is making too many phone calls. E-mails, texts and morse code transactions are okay. I could relate with the NCAA prohibiting calls during certain times or on weekends. But a sales call is a sales call.
If the recruit doesn't want to talk to the coach, frankly, he won't. It's that simple. He should be held accountable for his actions IMO. But to what end? And I understand that he is not new to this violation.
I still do not think making too many phone calls should cost him his job. |
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egami
Posts:5038
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| 02/19/2008 9:22 AM |
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| Is it really that hard for you to make a simple point? All I asked you to do was site the rule you had issue with. |
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Omahan
Posts:3232
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| 02/19/2008 9:26 AM |
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You're an idiot egami. Because if you had done any homework on this matter you would know that no specifics have been released yet on the violations, only that Sampson has lied and that it concerns phone calls.
Jason Whitlock of Foxsports wrote:
There is this great myth in my home state among basketball fans that Bobby Knight won three national championships, 11 Big Ten titles and 902 games with an NCAA rulebook clutched firmly in his right hand the way a preacher holds a Bible.
It's just not true. Bobby Knight has too much intelligence to have any respect for the NCAA and its outdated regulations. I've never met a coach with a modicum of intellect who had any real regard for the NCAA and its laws.
You do what you think is fair and what you think won't get caught.
I mention this because there's great hysteria in the Hoosier state. The NCAA declared in a recent report that Kelvin Sampson, the man who replaced the man who replaced Bob Knight at Indiana, lied to NCAA investigators and school compliance administrators about phone calls to recruits.
Mr. Telephone Man and his three-way recruiting offense are about to be run out of Bloomington based on allegations that he circumvented NCAA policy.
Despite considering Kelvin Sampson a friend, I'll have no problem with his dismissal. He violated the second tenet of the coaches' NCAA rulebook. After fleeing Oklahoma amid allegations of improper phone use, there was no reason for Sampson to believe he wouldn't get nabbed at Indiana for virtually the same violation.
Fire Kelvin Sampson for a lack of common sense. Do not dispose of him under the false pretense that he is unethical, immoral, dishonorable or unprincipled.
Short of academic fraud or the kind of criminal activity that transpired at Baylor under Dave Bliss, it's nearly impossible for me to believe any college coach is a cheater.
Coaches are stretchers of NCAA rules that they don't believe in. They make fathers and street agents assistant basketball coaches to land recruits. School boosters move entire families across country and close to campus, so that the families can easily attend home games and magically cri$$cro$$ the country attending away games. Once many of the economically disadvantaged kids land on campus, they somehow manage to drive SUVs and move into wonderfully furnished apartments.
I grew up in Indianapolis, went to college at Ball State, worked as a sports writer in Bloomington (Ind.), Charlotte (N.C.), Ann Arbor (Mich.) and Kansas City. I've covered college basketball at every stop and have spent time on nearly every big-time college basketball campus in the country. I've seen the exact same thing at every stop.
So I'm offended when Kelvin Sampson is labeled some sort of despicable cheater. If he is, he's in very good company, a circle that includes every coach who has legitimately attempted to win a national championship during the last 30 years.
Again, this is not a plea for Mr. Telephone Man to keep his job. He screwed up. He allowed arrogance to interfere with common sense. He knew when he pursued and accepted the job at Indiana that many Hoosier fans were under the delusion that Indiana basketball was a beacon of NCAA integrity.
Sampson's apparent stupidity might cost Indiana scholarships, and a shot at the Big Ten crown and national title. Yeah, it's a fire-able offense. When you toss in the fact that this controversy has ruined Eric Gordon's lone college season and D.J. White's terrific senior campaign, then it becomes even more difficult to muster sympathy for Sampson.
I don't know what Sampson's defense is.
The only explanation that would make sense is: "It's not my voice on the phone calls. Someone hired an impersonator. I've been framed."
Seriously, given the situation, Sampson should've never picked up a phone in an effort to recruit any Indiana basketball player other than Eric Gordon, the only prospect Sampson needed to land in order to justify his hiring.
Whether or not Sampson misled NCAA investigators or his employer about the calls is irrelevant to me. I'm sure he'll make a strong case that he misled no one. The crime is not realizing that he had active enemies at Indiana who would be looking for an opportunity to get him entangled in an NCAA mess. The best way to dodge that trap is to avoid playing that game, elude even the appearance of impropriety.
Smart coaches hire loyal assistants to take all the chances.
As for bringing Bobby Knight back to Indiana?
When he quit at Texas Tech and stories began circulating that he would coach again, it crossed my mind that Knight was tipped off that there was major trouble brewing at Indiana.
I initially defended Knight for "retiring" at Texas Tech. But if he returns to major college basketball next season (or really at any time) after walking away from a team at mid-season, it would constitute an act of cowardice and hypocrisy that we've never really witnessed in major college sports.
As a longtime, casual Bob Knight defender, I would be embarrassed.
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egami
Posts:5038
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| 02/19/2008 9:33 AM |
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Posted By Omahan on 02/19/2008 9:26 AM
You're an idiot egami. Because if you had done any homework on this matter you would know that no specifics have been released yet on the violations, only that Sampson has lied and that it concerns phone calls.
I am an idiot because I asked you to quantify the issue you claim you have with NCAA recruiting rules?
You said you have a problem, yet you can't quantify what that problem is.
It's you that apparently has an issue. This isn't about my inability to comprehend anything in the Sampson debacle...I am asking YOU a straightforward question that you are failing to answer.
Again, you seemingly feel as if Sampson was inappropriatel sanctioned. Explain why.
For the 4th or 5th time... |
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Omahan
Posts:3232
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| 02/19/2008 9:45 AM |
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Explain why to yourself. I'm not going to explain anything to you champ. Either you have a take or you don't.
I don't care either way. Mine is clear as I've read the last 7-8 posts on this thread and have no problem understanding my own position.
Your position obviously is: I will attempt to make things difficult for Omahan because he has lashed at me. I'll show him.
You really showed me egami....you showed how shallow and low you're willing to stoop. |
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egami
Posts:5038
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| 02/19/2008 9:50 AM |
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This has nothing to do with being shallow or low...it had to do with you apparent inability to communicate.
Again, you site specifically that a coach shouldn't be fired for making phone calls. I asked you, Omahan, what YOUR opinion is regarding NCAA rules. I can't explain why you believe what you do, that's your job.
Explain WHY the NCAA rules, specifically which rules, are out of line. That's YOUR job...
My opinion is that he should be following the rules. I don't have a problem with the NCAA creating an equal ground atmosphere for recruiting. You apparently do not.
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Go Blue! |
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Omahan
Posts:3232
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| 02/19/2008 9:50 AM |
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Cut 'n Dry: Kelvin Sampson is going to lose his job for making too many phone calls. IMO, the punishment is too severe. I agree with Whitlock that he isn't unethical or immoral. I disagree with Whitlock that he should be fired. Although I do understand this isn't his first offense regarding phone call violations.
If that isn't clear enough then don't expect a response. Get a translator. |
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Omahan
Posts:3232
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| 02/19/2008 9:54 AM |
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You are deliberately making this more complex than it is. You wanted me to cite the rule I take issue with?
Have I not stated that "phone calls by coaches" is what Sampson is in violation of? If you need the specific code # and section and the date it was voted in, I suggest you peruse the NCAA basketball rules site. |
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