Crit40
Posts:2483
 |
| 02/11/2008 10:54 AM |
 Alert
|
| Keep in mind, Snyder has only owned the Redskins since 1999. |
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
egami
Posts:5397
|
| 02/11/2008 11:10 AM |
Alert
|
| In my mind, Snyder is a distant second. All things considered. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
Crit40
Posts:2483
|
| 02/11/2008 11:21 AM |
Alert
|
I'm not so sure. Al Davis is old and koo koo! Dan Snyder is young, seemingly of sound mind, but acts koo koo.
Al Davis does have some positive history with his franchise. Dan Snyder does not. 6 coaches in 9 years? Jim Zorn? No coordinator experience? Cmon? |
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
Bugeater
Posts:971
|
| 02/11/2008 11:36 AM |
Alert
|
| Hey now, get off my boy Al Davis. He's the PERFECT owner for the Raiders. |
|
|
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/11/2008 12:27 PM |
Alert
|
I would have to say Al Davis has never had any true adversary when it came to being the crummiest NFL owner in history.
And how about adding Jerry Jones into this forray?
As far as Snyder, he's learning on the fly. (like so many have to) Who knows what goes on behind closed doors but for the record Snyder has only "fired" two coaches thus far. Shottenheimer & Turner. Spurrier resigned and Gibbs retired and Robiske was interim.
So actually Zorn will be the 5th coach in about 9 seasons. Turner bored fans for years prior to Snyder's arrival so was due for termination and Shottenheimer and Snyder never saw eye-to-eye. Spurrier I believe found out instantly that the college game was better suited for him. And Gibbs could've done whatever he wanted for the most part. |
|
|
|
|
egami
Posts:5397
|
| 02/11/2008 12:44 PM |
Alert
|
I can't add Jerry Jones, really. While he is unquestionably meddling I don't think it's fair to fault a guy who generally puts together winning teams.
Honestly, as much as people complain about Jones, I think he is arguably one of the better owners in the league when all aspects are considered. I think he is exceptionally good on the business side and the league side of things.
In my mind Al Davis stands alone. He is meddling and he isn't even good at it. No one wants to work for the guy...I mean, you're now diving into the mid-level ranks of the NCAA D1 coaches to get guys and that's not even working out. There is by far less continuity in Al Davis' franchise than any other in the league.
Omahan makes a very valid point about Snyder. The guy has only actually fired a couple coaches and let's face it...Norv Turner HAD to go (I would think even you would agree with that, Crit  ).
With Snyder I get the impression of a meddler, but not as hands on of one as Jones and Davis. To me he just comes off like a guy who wants to win and is willing to spend whatever it takes. Although, he kind of parallels Davis in that he seemingly isn't willing to build a franchise properly....he seems much more patient to me than Davis.
I think Davis would fire coaches mid-season if he didn't think they'd put him in a straight-jacket.
Mark my words, I've said it many, many times...the best thing that can happen for Raider Nation is for Al Davis to die.
|
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1206
|
| 02/11/2008 12:50 PM |
Alert
|
Granma Al is far and away the worst owner in ALL of professional sports, without question. He had his great moments up until about the end of the 20th century, and aside from the teams Gruden had (and left with Callahan for one year after) they have been an NFL laughingstock.
Snyder is proof positive that having more money than God does not make you a smart businessman when it comes to pro sports. That guy has the Redskins in perpetual wannabe mode and the lack of continuity in coaching is only going to further cement their place in mediocrity. If he lets Zorn develop into a quality head coach (he's already one of the best QB coaches in the league), he might see his team become competitive again.
Jerry Jones is a jerk, in my opinion, but he's not meddling the way Snyder is. And like him or not, he has results for his micro-managing ways. He's won 3 Super Bowls and the Cowboys, with the exception of a few seasons, are competitive year in and year out (and this comes from somebody who HATES the 'Boys with a passion). He gutted that team when he first bought it, built it around some tremendous drafts and trades and made them a winner again. |
|
|
|
|
Crit40
Posts:2483
|
| 02/11/2008 1:25 PM |
Alert
|
I think I was playing a little devil's advocate on this one following the recent activities in our Nation's Capital....pertaining to the football team that is.
Don't get me wrong....I like Jim Zorn. I grew up watching him play with his Fran Tarkington'esk style and enjoyed it. It just seems odd to me that the two cities that encompass the D.C. area (Baltimore and Washington) have both hired relative novices in the HC realm or even in the coordinator realm. Maybe this is the new thing.......roll the dice on an unexperienced guy and let him cut his teeth on your dime. Wouldn't be my plan, I guess.
I agree....Al Davis is hands down the worst, but Snyder has to be in the running for that number 2 spot, and Jerry Jones isn't even close. As for the coaching carrosel, only 2 may have been fired, and rightly so, but constant change is not condusive to winning divisions or championships. No matter how the turnover comes about, it still boils down to the owner finding the "right fit" for the team. Joe Gibbs, in my mind, was all along only going to be a short-timer for stability purposes. Other than Joe, Snyder has been horrible at hiring the right guy.
I hope Zorn works out.......but having your first Head Job coming before that first Coordinator Job rings of uncertainty. |
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
egami
Posts:5397
|
| 02/11/2008 1:31 PM |
Alert
|
Snyder has dug his grave and the hiring Zorn was essentially forced on him. In fairness, I think Zorn was a great hire as OC. Is it pre-mature for HC? I don't know...we'll see. I've never been of the opinion that being a OC/DC is a pre-requisite and in fact I think it can be a hindrance. Perhaps part of why Weiss is handing over the reigns at ND.
I mean, seriously, people whine all the time about D1 coaches that fail as HC in the NFL, but the list isn't overly short for coordinators either.
What I like about Zorn is that he exhibits, to me, what a HC should be. A teacher. So, I think inadvertently Snyder may have backed into a good deal. Now, the real question, is Snyder going to learn that building via FA isn't the way to go. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1206
|
| 02/11/2008 2:06 PM |
Alert
|
If Zorn can work with Campbell, I think he can really bring him up to another level. He did a great job in working with Hasselbeck and if he can do for the Redskins what he has been able to do in his previous gig, they'll be fine as long as Snyder can keep his fingers out of the pie (which, past history has shown, is impossible for him to do).
The thing I like about the hirings Crit mentions is that they ARE NOT guys who have been on the coaching carousel. At some point in time, you've got to stop hiring these guys who have been head coaches for multiple NFL teams and get somebody in who has been standing in the shadows as a coordinator or positions coach and give them a chance to bring some fresh ideas and new attitudes in. |
|
|
|
|
Crit40
Posts:2483
|
| 02/11/2008 2:47 PM |
Alert
|
I'm certainly not for re-treading coninuous NFL failures. IMO, Norv Turner is not an NFL HC, regardless of how far the Chargers went this year. Anybody can take a good team to the playoffs. Hell, maybe even to the Super Bowl ala Bill Callahan.
It's the guys that can turn a mediocre or poor team into a contender that I want. Maybe the "new blood" is exactly what is needed.
But I also think you need a guy that has a little bit of experience under pressure.
|
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
vranged
Posts:2813
|
| 02/11/2008 3:47 PM |
Alert
|
Al Davis is the worst owner in the NFL. I'd put Detroit's (no idea what the guy's name is ) second. Anyone who keeps Matt Millen for as long as he's been there is not a smart person.
At least Snyder makes moves, and tries. As a fan, I wouldn't mind an owner like that, even if the results haven't been great so far. |
|
After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
|
|
egami
Posts:5397
|
| 02/11/2008 3:53 PM |
Alert
|
Honestly, now that you mention it, I probably would put the Detroit owner (it's a Ford, or Fords, I know that much) up there very high, maybe even number two.
And, no I am not on the whole "2007 Season Buys Millen a Pass" bandwagon either. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/11/2008 4:16 PM |
Alert
|
Pertinent to this topic, ESPN.com compiled a consensus called "The List: Worst Owners in Sports"
1.) Jeremy Jacobs - Boston Bruins
2.) Art Modell - Cleveland Brown/Baltimore Ravens
3.) Bill Wirtz - Chicago Blackhawks
4.) Jerry Jones - Dallas Cowboys
5.) Peter Angelos - Baltimore Orioles
6.) Jerry Reinsdorf - Chicago Bulls
7.) Mike Brown & Family - Cincinnati Bengals
8.) Donald Sterling - LA Clippers
9.) Bill Bidwell - Arizona Cardinals
10.) Daniel Snyder - Washington Redskins
Dishonorable mention: McCaskey family (Chicago Bears), Bill Giles, Dave Montgomery and co. (Philadelphia Phillies), George Shinn (Charlotte Hornets), Chris Cohan (Golden State Warriors), Carl Pohlad (Minnesota Twins), William Clay Ford (Detroit Lions), Bud Adams (Tennessee Titans), Peter Karmanos (Carolina Hurricanes), Mike Illitch (Detroit Tigers), Bob Irsay and family (Baltimore Colts), Paul Loria (Montreal Expos), Michael Heisley (Vancouver Grizzlies), and the conglomerate of all Chicago's owners.
Notice that Al Davis didn't make the list - not even dishonorable mention?
And this list is obviously an all time list with some of these geysers being dead already.
Also I have been perpetually baffled by the Detroit Lions over the years. Ford is a young guy that is known for innovation and change and Millen I've always felt has done everything to bring guys to Detroit. Like so many franchises maybe the curse is on in the Motor City. |
|
|
|
|
SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1206
|
| 02/11/2008 4:28 PM |
Alert
|
| Oh geez...I COMPLETELY forgot about Dollar Bill Bidwell and the Ford family. Bidwell's ineptness is legendary dating back to the Cards' days in St. Louis. And anybody who has allowed a perpetual dunderhead like Matt Millen to stay in the GM chair THAT long and make THAT many stupid decisions needs to be on a short list of bad owners. |
|
|
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/11/2008 4:32 PM |
Alert
|
While I personally think he is crap. I think Al Davis has plenty of respect league wide from his colleagues.
He was actually a coach coming up and was the first coach of the Raiders in the AFL. Most of the time I hear the word "controversial" used to describe Davis rather than inept or something to that affect.
He has won Super Bowls (several - even though they were many moons ago) so I suppose that is why he is considered a winner. I think we all could agree that he definetely isn't popular with prospective coaches.
And the guy is 80 years old so regardless his tenure will end soon. |
|
|
|
|
SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1206
|
| 02/11/2008 4:40 PM |
Alert
|
I think a lot of people still hang on to the old Al Davis -- the one who made the shrewd decisions, gave the NFL stuffed shirts the finger and lived the "commitment to excellence" mantra to the full -- rather than the old, myopic, slobbering goat that he is now.
The old Al Davis would have fired the current one a looooooooong time ago... |
|
|
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/11/2008 4:50 PM |
Alert
|
| I wonder if like Steinbrenner, he has a son that will carry on his rigid ways. |
|
|
|
|
SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1206
|
| 02/11/2008 4:53 PM |
Alert
|
| I thought I read somewhere that he has a son and a daughter who are invovled in the organization, but whether or not they will take over I'm not sure. |
|
|
|
|
vranged
Posts:2813
|
| 02/11/2008 4:57 PM |
Alert
|
| His son was as big of a hard-ass in the A-Rod and Johann Santana dealings as George ever was. He may be more annoying than Dad. |
|
After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
|
|