SeahawksSB42champs
Posts:1206
 |
| 02/07/2008 12:41 PM |
 Alert
|
I'm not sure I like the trade for Shaq by the Suns. Sure, they get rid of a cancer in Marion, but trading that for a slow, aging, injured big man who couldn't hit a free throw if the future of the civilized world depended on it?
If the Suns wanted to win the franchise's first NBA title this year, I'm of the opinion they have decided to wait until next year...or however long it takes for them to realize that the 2008 Shaq model is nowhere near as good a model as that of a decade ago... |
|
|
|
|
egami
Posts:5397
|
| 02/07/2008 12:45 PM |
Alert
|
We touched on this in another thread, here is my quote from there:
Posted By egami on 02/06/2008 6:46 PM Posted By vranged on 02/06/2008 4:33 PM
4. Suns take a lateral step, in my opinion. They get an inside presence, and give up a complainer (Marion) but is he enough? Is it worth $20M per? All that being said, I think it was worth the roll of the dice for the Suns.
For the HEat, it was a coup. Getting that contract off the books, and acquiring the Scottie Pippen (Shawn Marion) to the HEat's Michael Jordan (Dwyane Wade) could be a great combination for years to come.
I think this is a better trade for the Heat, personally. They get younger and lose an anchor...physically and psychologically. Not that it's a bad trade for Phoenix. They bring in someone who has been there. They have the personnel to rest him, but at $20M it's a costly gamble. Both teams get rid of players that are the center of negative attention to some degree. It's one of those trades that I think the end will justify the means if they win for a lot of people. If not, I think all the critics will be all over it as a bad move by trading for dead weight. I think the change of venue will refocus Shaq though.
|
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/07/2008 7:50 PM |
Alert
|
I see that His-bitterness/alcoholicness took a moment to compose a thread starter worthy of awards. And egami was noble and posted the lone "mercy" post as a reply. I'll join the "mini-fray" and add a penny of thoughts.
1. Shawn Marion is a cancer? The guy was in large part the best player on the court much of the time for Phoenix. When Stoudamire went down, he carried the team. As unorthodox as his shot is, it is efficient even from 3 point range and the guy runs like a deer. I don't recall any turmoil he caused within the team. A cancer is derived from what?
Seabiscuit has relapsed.
2. You obviously didn't hear Steve Kerr's reasoning behind acquiring Shaq. He stated he knows he isn't what he once was. However, on this talented team, he doesn't have to be. He can play 20 minutes a game and be a defensive force and do what Shaq does in the middle "dominate." The guy is argueably the most dominant inside force to ever play the game. He can help the talented Suns with his muscle and saavy. So so much for calling him slow and aging...Kerr and the Suns know he is not young.
Somebody stop him...this is his second beer.
3. This was all discussed in another thread that is still alive.
4th Shot was just swallowed...intervention!
4. Shaq states "I won't let you down."
Detoxification is needed.
|
|
|
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/08/2008 8:52 AM |
Alert
|
The Big Fella stated in his interview with Shelley Smith, "I won't let you down."
That was his message to his new teammates. When you have won as many championships as Shaq has and you understand what you are capable of currently, I would surmise a real resurgence is occuring in the career of Shaq.
Only injuries can slow this train when he gets on a mission. Look out west, Gasol will help LA but he is no Shaq even at 80%. |
|
|
|
|
Crit40
Posts:2483
|
| 02/08/2008 9:43 AM |
Alert
|
I think Shaq had to get out of Miami. The minute Barkley put Duane Wade in his Fab 5, we knew there was going to be issues of whether Shaq and Wade could continue to play together.
On the serious side, I think this is good for both teams. As has been evidenced in Shaq's career, every once in a while, the guy needs change to re-energize him. This might just be the ticket for him to extend his career a few more years. |
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/08/2008 9:46 AM |
Alert
|
| Toss in The Heat are losing like no other. Run for you life would be my thought if I were playing for team with as many problems as the Heat have this season. |
|
|
|
|
vranged
Posts:2813
|
| 02/08/2008 9:46 AM |
Alert
|
I would bet money that if you asked 100 NBA analysts, beat writers, etc. if they'd rather have Gasol than Shaq -- 95 of them would say Gasol.
|
|
After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/08/2008 9:49 AM |
Alert
|
For the long haul on most teams - agreed.
Not if you're the Phoenix Suns with this current team, salary cap and needs considered.
Shaq is a perfect fit IMO. |
|
|
|
|
vranged
Posts:2813
|
| 02/08/2008 9:53 AM |
Alert
|
Salary cap? Shaq has arguably the worst possible deal for any team's salary cap in the NBA. He's on the line for $40M for the next two seasons.
|
|
After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/08/2008 9:55 AM |
Alert
|
He's a short term guy. Did you see the details of his deal?
Hurry up, Google. |
|
|
|
|
Crit40
Posts:2483
|
| 02/08/2008 9:56 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By vranged on 02/08/2008 9:46 AM
I would bet money that if you asked 100 NBA analysts, beat writers, etc. if they'd rather have Gasol than Shaq -- 95 of them would say Gasol.
I would suggest that it might be 99 or 100, but in context, you're asking a question about a guy who's upside is wide open and longevity is years down the road. On the flip-side, Shaq is old, lame and edging the end of his career.
Of course they would take Gasol. |
|
Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
|
|
egami
Posts:5397
|
| 02/08/2008 9:58 AM |
Alert
|
| Yeah, if anything that is why this was a better deal for Miami. They shed Shaq's $20M for these two guys at $20M. All other angles aside I think the cap aspect benefits Miami. That's what makes this a gamble for Phoenix...paying $20M for a guy that's about 75% of what he used to be. Does he bring that much experience and leadership? I don't know...the good thing for Phoenix is the probably have the bench depth to keep him rested. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
vranged
Posts:2813
|
| 02/08/2008 9:58 AM |
Alert
|
Posted By Omahan on 02/08/2008 9:55 AM
He's a short term guy. Did you see the details of his deal?
Hurry up, Google.
Don't need to Google. Unlike some, who rely on it as their source for everything. (Look in mirror)
I know details of the deal. What about his current salary is salary cap friendly?
(I bet you don't answer the question -- BECAUSE THERE IS NO ANSWER. It's not salary cap friendly)
|
|
After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/08/2008 10:00 AM |
Alert
|
Trade value is all about team needs.
Phoenix needs down low presence, shot blocking and someone to help Stoudamire against San Antonio and to help against Dirk in Dallas. Shaq can lend enough quality minutes to accomplish that. And hopefully in the process get Phoenix over the hump, finally.
|
|
|
|
|
egami
Posts:5397
|
| 02/08/2008 10:00 AM |
Alert
|
| The angle I can think of is what Marion may bring if they choose to retain him. I am not sure what he has on his contract, but imo you can't go wrong shedding $40M for two years of a declining Shaq. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
vranged
Posts:2813
|
| 02/08/2008 10:05 AM |
Alert
|
Dman -- still waiting to read how this deal benefited Phoenix's salary cap situation.
And you think Shaw is going to guard Dirk? GOOD GOD!!!! Do you even know what NBA stands for?
Shaq has never, nor will ever, guard Dirk, unless it's on a switch.
Like I said earlier -- you like to talk sports, but you have no idea what you're saying. Before this message board, Dwight, I bet you thought you knew sports. WRONG!!!!!!!!
|
|
After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/08/2008 10:17 AM |
Alert
|
Mike and Mike talked about it this morning, why weren't you watching? Does everything have to be explained to you?
I'll do it this time and next time google your own information.
Shaq was schedule to make 20 Mil for the next three seasons. Shawn Marion was slated to make 16.4 this season and over 17 Mil next season. So the addition of a 20 million dollar salary and the exit of a 17 million dollar salary equates to 3.something million dollars of money spent on a monster of a center that can very possibly be the peice to the puzzle that takes Phoenix over the top.
A small price to pay for increasing your chances ten fold. You're a gambling man vranged, why would freewheeler like you not see the good in this trade. Money or otherwise.
Or are you just nitpickin again because your feelings got hurt? Grow up. |
|
|
|
|
egami
Posts:5397
|
| 02/08/2008 10:22 AM |
Alert
|
I don't get that logic for a couple reasons...
1. When I looked at the trade I looked at the cost of the players and I am pretty sure the dollar value was about a wash. Both players salaries offset Shaq's I am pretty sure for the most part. Both teams were taking on about what they were off-loading.
2. I don't see it increasing their chances 10-fold. At best, it's a gamble that it'll increase them at all.
3. You have one man eating up $20M per year versus two men. Clearly, per player, Miami got the salary cap advantage from that aspect.
Advantage: Miami. They are taking players who aren't declining in a spiral.
Not that Shaq can't pan out...but it's a gamble, and even if they win it all, I'll be surprised if you can point to Shaq as the reason. |
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|
Omahan
Posts:3699
|
| 02/08/2008 10:29 AM |
Alert
|
Team needs. That's what it's all about. Phoenix has plenty of athletes similar to Marion and his salary was the highest of those after Nash and Stoudamire. He'll be missed but I really think what has been lost in all of this conversation regarding this trade is how Shaq will react to not being the guy. He has struggled throughout his career with his ego. He needs to be the man and for much of his career he was.
He isn't anymore and certainly won't be on this team. Steve Nash can nurture him probably better than most though. |
|
|
|
|
egami
Posts:5397
|
| 02/08/2008 10:44 AM |
Alert
|
I understand team needs drive trades...but we were talking specifically about the salary cap aspect of the trade.
Addressing need doesn't automatically equate to being salary cap friendly.
|
|
Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
|
|