egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/05/2008 9:16 AM |
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Argumentum ad populum.
Because ESPN says so...the fact is, I listen to popular media too and there are plenty of people out there that agree with my perception that Eli still has to carry this momentum into next season and beyond to be considered more than a "one hit" wonder.
I think you're so caught up trying to "prove" me wrong that you're being intellectually dishonest about my opinion...it's not nearly as far off base as you're trying to make it.
Just like your misread on my "blind squirrel" comment on page one...Crit seemed to catch on to it just fine. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/05/2008 9:21 AM |
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Posted By vranged on 02/05/2008 9:14 AM
Did the pass rush lead the Giants down the field when they were trailing with a couple minutes to go? Where was the pass rush when the game was on the line, and the Pats EASILY drove down for the go-ahead score in the 4th quarter?
Listen, the pass rush was great for a lot of the game. But when it mattered most, it disappeared. When offense mattered most, Eli came through.
See, this is the close-mindedness that is almost comical...it doesn't come down to one drive. That drive is meaningless without the defensive effort the rest of the game.
How about Eli choking it early on and throwing an INT that was clearly avoidable and putting additional pressure on his defense? The game didn't matter at that point?
The whole game was close...the whole game mattered. And his WR's made some incredible grabs for him.
He was an Asante Samuel missed grab from being the Super Bowl dunce if you want to get so narrow-minded about it. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/05/2008 9:21 AM |
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Eli made some plays. But "the catch" on that drive was 1/2 Eli and 1/2 great catch. Cred where it belongs. The pass rush finally got exhausted I believe after playing about 55 minutes of incredible football, it happens.
You are speaking the truth but not on point. No one said Eli didn't play well all throughout the playoffs. But your arguement has been that he is not a Trent Dilfer type and is moving on to Brady-esque levels. All I'm saying is that that may occur, it hasn't yet. His season stats were 27 TD's and 20 Int's during the regular season, last time I checked the regular season is what get's you into the playoffs. He'll need to reduce the Int's and up the TD's to get out of the "average quarterback" label. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/05/2008 9:30 AM |
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I think the other aspect may be disrespect for Dilfer.
Personally, rating him on that level in my book isn't a slam on Eli. I have a lot of respect for Dilfer as a QB. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/05/2008 9:34 AM |
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| They all struggle in the early stages of a career QB'ing in the NFL. I recall Dilfer as a rookie having somewhere in the neighborhood of 4 TD's and 19 INT's. and then eventually playing in a Pro-bowl. So change can and does occur. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/05/2008 9:49 AM |
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| Well, most all do anyway...I think Brady might be an exception, but by and large...most struggle some early on, some struggle longer...Eli struggled quit a bit. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/05/2008 9:59 AM |
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Egami, when two people have differing opinions, one will try to disprove the other. Don't take it so personally. I think your opinion is stupid. You probably think my opinion of your opinion is stupid. It is what it is.
I said the Giants pass rush and defense was great. But when it mattered most, they kind of folded in the 4th quarter. That's when Eli stepped up. That's all I was saying. Without Eli, the Giants wouldn't have won. Without the defense, the Giants wouldn't have won. It's a team game. No individual has ever won a game on his own.
And as for Eli's intereception, that was more Steve Smith's fault, than Eli's. Eli hit Smith in the shoulderblade with the pass, and it tipped up into the defender's hands. That wasn't Eli's fault. So for you to say that was Eli's fault, and somehow pressured the defense, is INTELLECTUALLY DISHONEST (since you like that term so much).
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/05/2008 10:01 AM |
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| I believe the interception referred to was the one the Pat's db didn't get the INT on. Not the tipped ball. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/05/2008 10:03 AM |
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| Don't project your personal feelings on to me. I don't take anything you say personally. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/05/2008 10:06 AM |
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| I'm not projecting anything. I take nothing personally -- that's just how I argue. You keep saying I'm trying to prove you wrong. DAMN RIGHT I AM!! And you seem to be taking it personally. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/05/2008 10:07 AM |
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| And no comment on Eli's interception, and your intellectual dishonesty there? |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/05/2008 10:08 AM |
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Posted By Omahan on 02/05/2008 10:01 AM
I believe the interception referred to was the one the Pat's db didn't get the INT on. Not the tipped ball.
I reference Eli's first INT. It was a low thrown ball and there was another option read open.
While the INT wasn't Manning's fault solely it also wasn't the best read on the play and could have been avoided with patience or possibly a better thrown ball. Smith bobbled it, Eli threw it...he isn't absolved from it.
Then again, they'd of not been in 3rd and short if it weren't for the unnecessary delay of game penalty...hello, Eli. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/05/2008 10:22 AM |
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Now you're saying "the INT wasn't Manning's fault", after accusing him of choking earlier. Which is it? Are you finally acknowledging you might have been wrong about something?
Because if you're going to get in the game of questioning reads, and not throwing perfect balls, every interception would be technically the QB's fault, when we all know (hopefully) that's not true. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/05/2008 10:26 AM |
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| It WAS a bad throw. That's on Manning. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/05/2008 10:31 AM |
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So, now it is Manning's fault? You're switching again?
He hit his receiver in the hands. LOOK AT IT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4fgh2DU0l8
He hit the receiver in stride. Smith was going to the ground, and Manning put it in almost a perfect spot. Smith didn't catch the ball. Good Lord -- you accuse me of being intellectually dishonest. LOOK AT WHERE ELI PUT THE BALL!!!!!! |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/05/2008 10:37 AM |
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You think that's a good pass? Good God, you need help.
Clearly you're ignoring the fact we're on 3rd down here and they need a first down.
And, as I said...the other WR, assuming Eli can LEAD him, is in a better position to catch it and turn it up field for the first down.
But, I assume you'll make ANOTHER bogus claim about what I've said. I never said plainly "it's not Manning's fault" and left it at that, but read things as you will...I was simply acknowledging that the WR has SOME culpability. But then again...no sense arguing with you. You think you're always right.
Maybe I should be an ESPN dittohead like you. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/05/2008 10:41 AM |
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----------------------------------------------->---------------------------------------------------<--------<----------------->
Back 'n forth we go. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/05/2008 10:48 AM |
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It was 3rd down. There was a pass rush. He went to the quickest read -- and threw a great ball. If you think hitting a guy in stride, in a place where only the receiver can catch it, is a bad throw, then you seriously don't know what the fvck you're talking about. No, it wasn't a first down throw, but he didn't have a lot of time to go anywhere else. The other receiver might have been more open. Maybe he didn't make the best read, but I provided video evidence of a good throw. Seriously, if you can't see that, God help you.
I'm not an ESPN ditto head. Hell, I defend Michael Vick and Barry Bonds. Is that what everyone at ESPN does? No, I just happen to agree with the majority this time. So don't be so disingenuine.
I think I'm always right? And you don't? Seriously, answer that question -- you don't?
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/05/2008 10:49 AM |
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It was low, behind the receiver.
From your precious ESPN source: Smith bobbled a low ball, and it popped up, right into the hands of Hobbs. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/05/2008 10:49 AM |
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| Inspiring and insiteful....okay I'm lying. |
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