egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/04/2008 1:48 PM |
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OK, whatever, I am done with your games, vranged...I will discuss statements I've made...I am not going to play your psychological games where you make up quotes I clearly didn't type, or insinuate, to somehow "prove" you right.
You're being intellectually dishonest.
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/04/2008 1:51 PM |
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My games? WOW!!!
I'm being intellectually dishonest? WOW AGAIN!!
Pot, meet kettle. You're black.
I'll let the posts speak for themselves. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/04/2008 1:53 PM |
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Posted By Crit40 on 02/04/2008 12:52 PM The kid is marginal, yet he hangs on with a big market team. Is his Manning name warding off criticism? Are the Giants just biding time making sure they don't let him go too soon? Are occasional games like the one versus New England keeping fans and management pacified? Are the numerous dropped passes being discounted? Eli is a 2nd rate QB in the NFL and the brother of a great I think 2nd rate might be borderline promotion... How about just saying maybe some of these comments were a little premature? A carrot? 
Back to the real discussion...
I don't think they were pre-mature because they are refelctive of Eli at the time they were made. They were accurate.
Are they accurate now? Not so much considering his playoff performance. Regardless of previous or future performances Eli was great in the post-season. No question he was the best QB in the post-season.
However, he needs to translate this into next season and beyond to be considered more than a "one hit" wonder.
Can he achieve that? I don't know. I don't see him winning multiple Super Bowls. I think a LOT of his success this post-season also should be attributed to his defense and offense surrounding him.
It's simply too early to claim he has surpassed his old status for good. At least he was able to do it when it counts. That confidence may be what he needs to transition to the next level for good.
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/04/2008 2:04 PM |
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| There you go, sport!! You were finally shamed into acknowledging the kid was a good QB. I think that's all we were looking for. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/04/2008 2:13 PM |
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I didn't say he's a good QB. I said he had a great post-season this year. I had never insinuated otherwise.
Statistically, he is still a marginal QB over his career and if he could very well revert back. If you think I didn't already give him credit for his post-season run before that post...well, frankly I am sorry you can't read. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/04/2008 2:18 PM |
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| Oooops....you had to backtrack again. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/04/2008 2:27 PM |
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I am not back-tracking. My stance hasn't changed. Just your ability to comprehend simple English.
If anything, just ask for clarification rather than outright misrepresenting what I've stated. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/04/2008 2:34 PM |
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Eli Manning does deserve much credit for the Giants playoff run. Michael Strahan said in the pre-game interview that his expectation of Eli was for him to not make mistakes. He didn't bolster his ego or nurture or coddle him by giving him any reassurance that he believed in him, he just said he doesn't want him to make mistakes.
From Strahan to Barber to the entire New York metropolitan population, Eli Manning has been much maligned.
Deservedly so? Yes.
Egami is right in my opinion, he deserves credit for his gutsy and proficient play during this playoff run. And now matter what happens from here on out, they cannot take this away from him. But to this day he is average at best, statistics don't lie.
But next year he will have to continue to improve and make better decisions with the ball. Let's face it, he's no Payton or Tom. Unquestionably so.....nonetheless he has developed into a gutsy performer that never quits and can be relied upon to execute when the chips are down.
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/04/2008 2:47 PM |
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That's what an unheralded, game-managing QB named Tom Brady was considered, when he led his Pats into the Super Bowl for the first time, as a two TD underdog. Only difference -- Eli was drafted higher, so expectations were higher. Their paths have some similarities though. Few thought Tom Brady would become what he is -- and Eli proved he has that same intangible over the last several months.
And egami, I understand English. I also understand that you'll never acknowledge being wrong. Even when you had your schizo moment a couple months ago, and you were blatantly wrong about a grammar issue, you kept fighting the losing battle (with everyone telling you how wrong you were). It's a trait I am guilty of having myself sometimes. You mince words with the best of them -- it's actually impressive. But the fact is, you hammered Eli pretty bad, and he came out with a performance which destroyed your characterization of him. Now, you're having a tough time acknowledging it. It's part of that trait. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/04/2008 2:47 PM |
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| ---- double post, again ------ |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/04/2008 3:02 PM |
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Interesting points...especially the comparison to Brady. You never know, he might just have gotten that bolster of confidence that can elevate his game.
Eli is a good kid and it would be great to see. Physical abilities were never in doubt but neither were they in doubt for countless others that have moved on because they couldn't master the game between the ears. |
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Crit40
Posts:2483
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| 02/04/2008 3:06 PM |
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Posted By vranged on 02/04/2008 2:47 PM
That's what an unheralded, game-managing QB named Tom Brady was considered, when he led his Pats into the Super Bowl for the first time, as a two TD underdog. Only difference -- Eli was drafted higher, so expectations were higher.
One other difference.....Brady and the Patriots had the Rams signals. 
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/04/2008 3:09 PM |
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| Good point. Eli at least won legitimately. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/04/2008 3:12 PM |
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Legitimate seems to be a reoccuring theme today. Let's examine legitimacy?
Here's one definition: Conforming to recognized principles or accepted rules and standards.
Spygate is conforming to standards arguably. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/05/2008 7:17 AM |
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Posted By vranged on 02/04/2008 2:47 PM
That's what an unheralded, game-managing QB named Tom Brady was considered, when he led his Pats into the Super Bowl for the first time, as a two TD underdog. Only difference -- Eli was drafted higher, so expectations were higher.
How about ignoring one other KEY big difference...like number of years in the league. Oh yeah, let's see...I have nearly FOUR years of compiled data backing my stance.
Again, you're being deliberately ignorant. I gave credit to Eli for his post-season performance. That's the extent of it.
He HAS to deliver past this season in THIS style of play to give any more credit.
Right now, I rank him about a Trent Dilfer level.
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/05/2008 8:59 AM |
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| Fair enoguh. You rank him as a Trent Dilfer. I rank your ranking as stupid, as does most of the rest of the world, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/05/2008 9:03 AM |
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And who woke up on the wrong side of the bed?
Stupid? To rank Eli Manning alongside Trent Dilfer?
Very similar statistics and very similar career success.
Who particularly do you recognize as being "the rest of the world?" Because I didn't see a line for those tickets. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/05/2008 9:07 AM |
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| Watch 10 minues of SportsCenter; read any sports column about the Super Bowl and Eli's "coming of age". That's the rest of the world of I'm talking about. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/05/2008 9:10 AM |
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Actually I watched SportsCenter this morning. The theme in in regards to Eli seems to be that he has earned something now that no one can take away. Now he must continue to grow as a player in order to get to the level of his brother and Tom Brady. Of course the "coming of age" mantel is out there, he just won a Super Bowl. His supporting cast and more namely his defense is what won that Super Bowl.
Can you say PASS RUSH. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/05/2008 9:14 AM |
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Did the pass rush lead the Giants down the field when they were trailing with a couple minutes to go? Where was the pass rush when the game was on the line, and the Pats EASILY drove down for the go-ahead score in the 4th quarter?
Listen, the pass rush was great for a lot of the game. But when it mattered most, it disappeared. When offense mattered most, Eli came through. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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