turducken
Posts:602
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| 02/02/2008 5:27 PM |
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Enough of this game here, game there garbage trickling out every other day about Bitter Bill's grunts recording the opponent.
The entire Patriots' "dynasty" is tarnished so let's slap an * over their run, move on and forget it ever happened. Disgusting.
We can start by shaving the heads of the metrosexuals who sport the Tom Brady 'do under their Stetsons, Brokeback Mountain-style. |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/02/2008 6:04 PM |
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As we are force fed with thousands of pre-game shows, it would appear that there are many opinions of what legacy this great New England Patriot team will leave if they walk away tomorrow with one more victory.
There will not officially be an asterisk placed next to their name on the trophy nor in the NFL history books. This isn't steriods and MLB.
Those points are facts.
Skeptics will implore an asterisk and believers will argue legitimacy.
That is also fact.
What would be gross embellishment of fact would be to take away anything this "great" team has earned to go undefeated. Even in their few close games they found ways to win. They have been lucky with injuries as all the key skill players like Brady, Moss, Vrabel, Welker and the entire offensive line has remained healthy all season long. Other than injuries, this team didn't need any luck or any cheating to accomplish greatness.
The way I see it, two things stand out, (1) This team would've accomplished this feat without taping those lip reading captions. (2) History will read, "New England Patriots of 2007, Greatest team of All Time."
Any deviation from that fact is an opinion. Mine is unbiased yet respectful of deserving greatness. That is my opinion.
Our opinions won't change the facts. |
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Bugeater
Posts:971
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| 02/02/2008 7:16 PM |
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Posted By Omahan on 02/02/2008 6:04 PM
Even in their few close games they found ways to win.
Yeah, I really liked how they found a way to get an opponent's assistant coach to call a timeout at the worst possible time. Very impressive indeed.
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/02/2008 7:43 PM |
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I guess you'd have to enlighten me on the gist of that post.
I get the irony but not the incident, care to relate specifics? |
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Bugeater
Posts:971
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| 02/02/2008 7:54 PM |
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| Apparently you didn't see their game vs the Ravens. If that timeout had not been called, they lose and there is no undefeated season. Sorry, that's luck, and nothing else. |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/03/2008 9:01 AM |
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I did see that Monday nite game in part and I do recall that timeout. Can't argue your point there.
My response would be to go undefeated in this day and age in the NFL is unprecedented no matter how you arrive at it.
You did make your point though that my previous assessment of injuries being the only form of luck the Pats had received being not factual.
Point taken. |
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turducken
Posts:602
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| 02/03/2008 10:38 AM |
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It's even worse than I thought.
That lardass gasbag Ron Jaworski says what they did is okay. Being on the same side of the moral compass as Jaws is nothing to feel good about. |
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turducken
Posts:602
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/03/2008 10:59 AM |
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I happen to 100% agree with Jaworski. And I admire him for having the gonads to state such. It goes on everywhere and has been every since I can recall in my days. From Pop Warner to the NFL, coaches have been stealing signals and using them.
If you don't believe that then you don't know football.
As far as morals, I cannot speak for Jaworski but I doubt his angle was moralistic in nature. I would fathom he is saying it is the norm. He didn't create the protocol.
And as far as the asterisk, again, if you know football. It has been going on since the inception of the game and you would have to asterisk all champions because they are are guilty of it in some form or fashion.
Obviously you do not like the Pats. I'm not a fan of them either.
But regardless, they are undefeated and "spygate" is for those that don't understand IMHO and what is more prevalent here is the Spector/Goodell timing of releasing this during SB weekend.
Additionally, to make a blanket statement assuming one knows the truth regardless of what the governing system has rendered is irrational at best. I'm not saying all courts, juries or commissioners are completely fair and justice seeking.
What they did is record lip reading captions...in music, it lip syncing will destroy your reputation. In football, I would bet anything that as soon as hoodies' antics hit the media there were coaching staffs league wide burning film and scrambling to cover up leaks.
Do you believe that could be true? |
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turducken
Posts:602
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| 02/03/2008 11:07 AM |
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I know, I know...
"It's only cheating if you get caught."
"It's okay because everyone else does it."
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turducken
Posts:602
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| 02/03/2008 11:12 AM |
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Posted By Omahan on 02/03/2008 10:59 AM
And as far as the asterisk, again, if you know football. It has been going on since the inception of the game and you would have to asterisk all champions because they are are guilty of it in some form or fashion.
If everyone is doing it then let's see them settle this baseball style when the guy on second base gets caught stealing signs and the high and tight fastballs start flying.
NE certainly has the enforcers to hold their own in a scrap.
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/03/2008 11:17 AM |
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No, because the Pat's did get caught and no one else did.
Example: If you and I both owned meat processing factories. We would be governed by the USDA and would be required to have inspections of our processing to insure quality of product and safety of public.
There are hidden practices that go on in this undustry that fly underneath the watchful eye whether by crafty smoke cloud or by the sly handshake.
If the day came that the honest inspector fills in for the side-buck shyster and notices the bile bag dripping on the t-bone. He shuts down the plant and tags the meat. And if it were my plant that got shut down, then I would burden the brunt and be cast as the cheater and such. While you would make adjustments to your norm and continue to do business until the whole thing blows over and then go back to the norm.
Now, he did do his job and "morals" of doing what is right might come to the front of many minds. If you had been in this business for 30 years and understood that that bile would be washed off as the line ran that t-bone down the line another 20 foot and that things had been done this way for decades without complaint or illness. Well, I'd say your opinion of righteousness would differ from the opinion of the consumer that only knows what they read online or in the paper.
That analogy was "out there" I know. But the point I hopefully made is this. In every business, everywhere there are practices that are "the norm" that no one talks about because they are taboo in soceity.
Gaining one up on another coach is always the goal of any coach. Lip reading and playbook stealing is normal.
Whether you want to concede that truth or not. And why would you want to bash Jaworski, he only told the truth that he took part in this exact type of activity back in the 70's and he stated everyone knew everyone was doing it. I think it was Young that should be lashed for not being forthcoming. |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/03/2008 11:28 AM |
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And yes, it is okay if everybody else is doing it. Hell, if everyone where doing roids and it was legal to use them then the answer would be yes.
We don't make the rules. (not even the unspoken ones) |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 02/03/2008 3:01 PM |
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| Pats broke the rules to get a competitive edge. Bonds broke the rules to get a competitive edge. The fate of one should be the fate of the other with regards to legacy. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/03/2008 3:41 PM |
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Apples & Oranges.
Performance enhancing and coverage knowledge.
Both contribute to the success of a team but one is a substance and the other is a part of sports.
This was discussed by John Clayton recently and his views were one doesn't relate to other. I share his view, opinions...they are subjective.
Crux for me: Lip reading/hand signal reading has been a part of football since the inception of the game. It is the norm.
Steriods are a substance that was introduced many years after the game became famous.
This is important because it is like anything else. Right or wrong, if something has been with the structure since the beggining, it is permanent. Johnny come lately's can be discarded. Signal reading is an art in pro sports and those that are proficient at it make a nice living doing so. |
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turducken
Posts:602
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| 02/03/2008 9:51 PM |
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It's beyond "lip/hand signal reading." Recording walk-thrus gives you the script so you have a great chance to know what's coming.
Don't be a sucker for Jaws' apologist attitude toward what they do. He's best buds with Kornheiser and we all know how he feels about the Pats. |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/04/2008 7:25 AM |
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Defining Jaworski's position as an "apologist attitude" could'nt be any further from the truth to me. He played, he's been there. His attitude (if you will) is derived from on field experience. He isn't apologizing for anyone or anything.
Ron Jaworski stuck his neck out and told it the way it is. I can appreciate that . |
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Omahan
Posts:3699
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| 02/04/2008 7:26 AM |
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Besides, Pats lost. It's a non-issue now.
All you haters will drop the subject now because the truth is it didn't hold any true merit to begin with. It was a ploy to destroy a dynasty.
How pathetic. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 02/04/2008 8:29 AM |
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All you crybabies over Spygate need to seriously get a clue on the history of "signs stealing"...
The fact is that sign stealing is legal and the Patriots simply got busted on a technicality of the rule that Belichick was trying to work around.
Everyone does it. It has been done, it will be done and quite frankly if Arlen Specter gets any more involved than a cursory inquiry it's ridiculous. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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Crit40
Posts:2483
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| 02/04/2008 8:36 AM |
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Posted By egami on 02/04/2008 8:29 AM
All you crybabies over Spygate need to seriously get a clue on the history of "signs stealing"...
The fact is that sign stealing is legal and the Patriots simply got busted on a technicality of the rule that Belichick was trying to work around.
Everyone does it. It has been done, it will be done and quite frankly if Arlen Specter gets any more involved than a cursory inquiry it's ridiculous.
You mean the part about not being able to tape them, so you can study them over and over and over and over and over again until you know you've got them?
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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