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Crit40
Posts:2174
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| 01/25/2008 10:12 AM |
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Well, our fearless leaders in Washington D.C. once again proved their "out of touch" policy making by essentially passing a "feel good" economic stimulous package.
What will you all do (excluding Vranged & Midge as they make too much money) with your goverment checks?
I think I'll put mine into a mutual fund in my children's names so they will have some cash to pay it back to the government when we finally stop deferring our fiscal incompetance to our children to pay for us.  |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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egami
Posts:4910
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| 01/25/2008 12:17 PM |
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You know I've been doing a bit of research the past year on the historical aspect of economies of various nations and kingdoms back to Rome. It's been an interesting study and one that has changed my perspective on what is wrong with our policy.
1. The biggest issue, historically, isn't national debt. The most common thread behind major economic catastrophe is actually consumer debt.
2. A fiat currency system seems to always lead to economic problems.
3. It's bad practice for government to avoid recessions. Market corrections are necessary and healthy.
We have other bad money policies as well, but that's just a few. The thing I've noticed to is the tendency of people to point at various recent Presidential eras and pointing to them as "bad" or "good". The fact of the matter is we've been experiencing a relatively study expansion since the early 70's. The longer the expansion has lasted the more our government policy has weakened under each President up until now.
The expansion largely has grown on the side of consumer debt and the basic desire of consumer "wants" versus "needs". This is what will ultimately be the downfall if anything is the downfall of our economy. As I see it, one of two things will happen....either we'll allow a controlled deflation with minor market corrections over the next couple decades to take their toll and get back to a healthy base of expansion or we'll continue to plunge into the national debt and bail out deadbeats until the economy implodes.
The fiat system I think is masking reality with a perception of wealth that is false. Depending on the market...in many cases a home bought in the 1970's is worth the same amount to day in terms of actual gold value. This can't last forever.
And, recessions are a healthy thing. You have to let people feel some pain to keep reality in check. However, pick your political alliance...Bush, Clinton, Reagan or whatever...they are guilty of policy that has perpetuated this problem.
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Posted By Omahan on 06/16/2008 12:28 PM
I am actually desperate today.
Posted By Omahan on 06/16/2008 12:47 PM
They say...people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate.
Posted By Omahan on 07/18/2008 1:47 PM
And you have on cue demonstrated what I have hallucinated from day one in regards to you.
Posted by Omahan on 07/23/2008 10:25 AM
I actually created Fergie in part to attack you Crit without you knowing it was me. Some of your takes were so lame that I almost came at you as myself a few time... |
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Crit40
Posts:2174
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| 01/25/2008 12:57 PM |
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I'm afraid the end is near, because, on this subject, we agree 100%.
The attempt to "avoid" a recession is merely a political tactic utilized by both parties.
And national debt is typically not a problem for most governments. The government is not going to go broke. But where national debt can be a problem is when it gets so large, and the tax coffers aren't sufficient enough to pay for entitlements AND discressionary spending, AND interest on the debt, that we resort to printing money without removing dollars from the economy in order to pay that interest........which results in a week dollar, which results in inflation?
IMO, this recession is nothing compared to what we're in for 3 to 5 years down the road. Double digit inflation and double digit interest rates. |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Bugeater
Posts:971
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| 01/25/2008 1:08 PM |
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| I going to spend mine on online porn, and in turn stimulate myself as well. |
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turducken
Posts:358
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| 01/25/2008 1:54 PM |
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Posted By Bugeater on 01/25/2008 1:08 PM
I going to spend mine on online porn, and in turn stimulate myself as well.
I believe that is called the "trickle down" theory of economics? 
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Tim in Omaha
Posts:566
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| 01/25/2008 2:16 PM |
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| My kids want new ATV riding gear. Since this money is supposed to help spark the economy I will use it to buy them new gear, then a year from June I will put yet another set of barley used ATV gear on my annual garage sale for $3 only have some jerk off offer me .50 for clothes that cost me $800.00. At lest this year it will be a gift from the GOVT. |
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Dwight- bonehead, bozo, bungler, clod, dolt, fool, idiot, jerk, oaf
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Crit40
Posts:2174
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| 01/25/2008 2:24 PM |
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Posted By turducken on 01/25/2008 1:54 PM Posted By Bugeater on 01/25/2008 1:08 PM
I going to spend mine on online porn, and in turn stimulate myself as well. I believe that is called the "tickle down there" theory of economics?
I fixed it for ya!
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Omahan
Posts:2770
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| 01/25/2008 5:33 PM |
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Just read in an article that the U.S. represents 25% of the world's consumer purchasing power and the nearest is China which is around 23%. The article also stated that all major economies of the world "are tied" to the U.S. economy for that reason- a case in point is that when we experience recession, they experience recession; when we go through the subprime mortgage woes, they go through the same experience, etc.
The article also stated that the way the U.S. measures GDP is antiquated because its based on a "manufacturing economy" and not the current economy which is based on "information technology" and other factors.
I also believe in a market economy and its ability to correct itself. I'm reading Alan Greenspan's new book now and also another book entitled The Knowledge of Wealth of Nations which is difficult reading but very interesting.
If I had to do it all over again, I'd get a bachelor's in Economics and a master's degree in Finance or vice-versa. |
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Crit40
Posts:2174
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| 01/26/2008 9:34 AM |
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If I recall correctly, the last time the Bush administration did this "tax rebate" thing, it wasn't really a rebate at all, but an "advance" on your anticipated tax refund. If you had a refund coming, the rebate was deducted from your refund, and if you had a tax liability, you paid it back.
I don't know how old some of you here are, but if you are old enough to remember the farm crisis of the 1980's and the economic impacts of double digit inflation and double digit interest rates, I see resemblences in today's economy.
Indications that inflation is not 2% but much much, much higher.
Gold Prices - record highs - almost quadrupled in value
Land Prices - record highs - almost quadrupled in value
Farm commodity prices - record highs - almost tripled in value
Housing prices - were record highs before the bubble burst - in many cases have doubled in value
Automobiles - my first new car purchased in 1981 cost $5,000. Now - $28,000
Gas prices - record highs - almost doubled
Health care costs and health insurance -
The Dow - more than double
The value of the dollar is weak and getting weaker.
Our trade deficit is astounding.
All these issues coupled with record consumer debt, record government debt - and the fact that the new fed chairman removed M3 (printed money) from the calculation of inflation - are all indications that the near future is not going to be good.
Our monitary policy for the last couple of decades has been short-sighted and in the interest of Wall Street and not the overall economy.
Oops, this is a sports message board. My apologies. 
But the sports talk has been a little lacking the last week, so I thought I would inject a little thought provoking content.
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Bugeater
Posts:971
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| 01/26/2008 8:20 PM |
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If I recall correctly, the last time the Bush administration did this "tax rebate" thing, it wasn't really a rebate at all, but an "advance" on your anticipated tax refund. If you had a refund coming, the rebate was deducted from your refund, and if you had a tax liability, you paid it back.
No, but you had to claim it as income.
Automobiles - my first new car purchased in 1981 cost $5,000. Now - $28,000
I don't believe that would be the case for a comparable model of car. A 1981 Ford Escort probably cost around $5K, and a Ford Focus is around $15K now. It's still a significant increase, but the quality of vehicle you get for your money these days is much higher. Well, maybe not in the Focus' case, but you know what I mean.
As far as the rest of what you said, yeah, we're f*cked. Thanks for nothing, baby boomers. All this sh*t happened under your watch. You will go down in history as the greediest, most self-indulgent generation ever. |
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Crit40
Posts:2174
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| 01/28/2008 9:04 AM |
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What we have to remember is that in 1981, inflation was 10%, so the prices THEN were inflated.
And I don't disagree that the quality of vehicles is better today, but as far as economical....MPG is not significantly better. |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Omahan
Posts:2770
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| 01/28/2008 6:41 PM |
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Agreed on the vehicles.
I like my ladders fiberglass, but the older heavy steel framed cars and trucks can't be beaten by the corrogated, particle board frame cracker boxes of today. The only thing better is fuel injection. |
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Dman Reborn
Posts:10
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| 01/31/2008 2:15 PM |
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| I'm sure this will incur the ire of my followers, but I don't have much involvement with the tax situation in my home. My wife handles that with our accountant. I did hear about the rebate, but think it's a mistake. You can't just throw money at a problem. |
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Crit40
Posts:2174
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| 06/03/2008 3:44 PM |
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Our fearless Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke came out today and stated that he is beginning to be concerned about our weak dollar and its impact on inflation. Here's a noble idea......turn off the f#cking printing press and lets get our fiscal house in order!
Why didn't he just call me in January and we could have had a head start on this whole deal? |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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Fergie
Posts:377
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| 06/03/2008 5:18 PM |
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"Most economists agree that a stimulus directed to low-income households will generate a bigger spending impact than one aimed at higher-income households since affluent people are more likely to save the money, rather than plow it back into the economy."
That consideration is probably accurate. I would bank the cash and continue carrying on as usual. |
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