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DMan
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| 08/02/2007 4:12 PM |
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Posted By vranged on 08/02/2007 3:06 PM
In four years as N.D.'s starter, Brady Quinn was 29-18 as a starter. BUT, if you take out Stanford, BYU and the service academies, he was 18-17. That's average.
Quinn never won a bowl game, and never beat USC (0-4). Sure, he racked up tons of yards and touchdowns, but so did Ty Detmer, Timmy Chang, Andre Ware and David Klingler. Those numbers don't mean a lot without victories when it counts.
Notre Dame adds so much to a player's mystique, but that doesn't transfer to the pro field.
Saying he didn't fare well and didn't win are two different things. In many of those losses he played very well.
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/03/2007 8:47 AM |
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If you read my posts, I said that he could never win the big games. They're all big games in the pros, so that's why I don't think he'll do well. Peyton Manning was known as a QB that couldn't win the big ones in college either -- so it's possible Quinn will do well. I just don't think he will.
As for Joe Montana, he wasn't that hyped. There wasn't much mystique surrounding him, otherwise he wouldn't have been a third round pick. Regardless, to name one QB that breaks the mold is pretty disingenuine. That'd be like me saying Jackson State and Mississippi Valley State are the best colleges to get running backs and wide receivers from. While they have produced the greatest at each position, it doesn't magically increase or diminish the quality of other players coming from those schools. They are what they are.
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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DMan
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| 08/03/2007 9:23 AM |
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| Apples and Oranges |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/03/2007 9:34 AM |
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My dead-on analogy is Apples and Oranges?
Fine. If I have to sink to your level, Rick Mirer. Because of Rick Mirer all ND quarterbacks will suck. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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DMan
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| 08/03/2007 9:38 AM |
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BRADY QUINN BIOGRAPHY
Brady Quinn is one of three children for Robin and Ty Quinn. He was born Brady Tyler Quinn on Oct. 27, 1984, in Columbus, Ohio.
His uncle David Slates played football at Brown while another uncle Steve Slates played football at Kentucky.
Brady graduated from Coffman High School in Dublin, Ohio, and is majoring in finance and political science. He is 6'4" (193.04 meters) tall and weighs in at 231 pounds (104.77984 kilograms).
Brady enrolled in the Mendoza College of Business with a major in finance and second major in political science.
By his Junior year at Notre Dame, Brady Quinn owned every major Notre Dame passing record and was ready to set several more season and career marks. Brady Quinn was the all-time Notre Dame career passing leader in several categories: attempts (1,090), completions (611), yards (8,050), yards per game (230.0 ypg) and touchdown passes (58). His 2005 season totals are the all-time Irish bests in for attempts (405), completions (263), yards (3,633), yards per game (330.3 ypg) and touchdown passes (32).
Brady Quinn has thrown a touchdown pass in 16 consecutive games entering the Stanford contest, breaking the old Notre Dame record of 10 set by Heisman Trophy winner John Huarte in 1964. Quinn was the only quarterback in Notre Dame history to throw for 8,000 yards in a career and one of just two quarterbacks in Irish history to surpass 7,000 career passing yards.
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DMan
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| 08/03/2007 9:40 AM |
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| I'll wager a bet that Brady Quinn will win the Rookie of the Year Award to you Vranged. What's the bet? |
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DMan
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| 08/03/2007 9:49 AM |
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By Jim Corbett, USA TODAY
Brady Quinn's detractors insist he hasn't answered the call in Notre Dame's biggest games.
His coach, Charlie Weis, has two big-name comebacks for Quinn's critics: Tom Brady and Peyton Manning.
Weis vouched emphatically for Quinn's intangibles as a winner when asked what a team would be getting in the 6-4, 232-pound quarterback.
NOTRE DAME QBS: NFL success not always with Irish
"They're going to get a combination of Tommy and Peyton," Weis told Sirius Satellite Radio. "I've heard from at least 20 teams that this was the closest interview they've had to Peyton's (in 1998).
FIND MORE STORIES IN: NFL | Super Bowl | National Football League | Oakland | Notre Dame | Peyton Manning | Cleveland Browns | Charlie Weis | Jamarcus Russell | Quinn | Mike Mayock
"The kid's played in an NFL system. He understands the NFL game. He's NFL ready walking in the door."
Weis couldn't make his feelings any clearer to the Oakland Raiders, who pick first in this year's draft: Just Quinn, baby.
His ringing endorsement adds interesting fuel to what some evaluators consider a draft debate between two rare talents, quarterback JaMarcus Russell and wide receiver Calvin Johnson as Oakland's most likely options.
Weis mentored two-time Super Bowl MVP Brady in helping Bill Belichick's New England Patriots win three Super Bowls during his tenure as offensive coordinator. One team that figures to listen intently is Weis' former coaching colleague with the Patriots, Cleveland Browns coach Romeo Crennel.
Self-described as the most polished quarterback in this draft, Quinn, 22, figures to attract interest from five of the top nine teams in the first-round draft order with quarterback issues. The Raiders don't have a legitimate starter. The Detroit Lions could select a successor to veteran Jon Kitna but might wait until the second round for Michigan State's Drew Stanton. The Browns, picking third, seem a natural for Quinn, a Dublin, Ohio, native. The Minnesota Vikings at No. 7 and the Miami Dolphins at No. 9 also figure to have interest.
Quinn went 19-6 in his two seasons under Weis, but his critics underscore those six losses, all in so-called "big games" — twice against Southern California, the Sugar Bowl to Russell-led LSU, the Fiesta Bowl to Ohio State and to Michigan and Michigan State in the regular season.
Quinn has 17 more games of starting experience than Russell's 29.
"It's unfair, quite frankly," Browns general manager Phil Savage says of the perception Quinn struggles in big games. "That was the knock on Peyton Manning for a long time until he won the Super Bowl. …
"When you look at Notre Dame football the last three years, if you know the personnel they have vs. some of the competition they've played, if you took Brady Quinn and put him in other situations, he would have won 'big games.' "
Quinn has been scrutinized more than Russell because scouts have more videotape to nitpick.
"Brady Quinn has been knocked down too much in my opinion," San Diego Chargers general manager A.J. Smith says. "The guy's getting a bad rap, and it's unwarranted. He's a football junkie. He played at Notre Dame, and he had the great opportunity to be with Charlie Weis. He takes care of his body, and I have seen enough of him that I think he'll be a fantastic pro.
"Put the guy in the right situation, and he'll have that chance."
The draft is never what it appears, especially with a mystery team such as the Raiders in the pole position. And while Russell seems the early consensus to go to the Raiders first overall, consider last year's No. 1 favorite, 2005 Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush, was knocked out of the box at the 11th hour when the Houston Texans signed North Carolina State defensive end Mario Williams to a six-year deal with $26.5 million guaranteed two days before the draft.
What would Quinn tell a GM who asked why he should be taken ahead of Russell?
"I'd tell them I'm the most prepared collegiate player for the NFL in the draft," Quinn said at the scouting combine in Indianapolis. "There's not one other player that's had the kind of coaching that I've had the past couple of years.
"I feel that I am the best leader for a team that needs someone to step in."
Both candidates should be encouraged by the success of last year's rookie quarterbacks, Tennessee's Vince Young, Arizona's Matt Leinart and Denver's Jay Cutler, all selected within the top 11 picks. Teams can't afford to wait much longer than a year to find out about a first-round quarterback given the mega-millions commitment and fan expectations.
"If you take Brady Quinn, you're getting pretty much a finished product already," San Francisco 49ers vice president of player personnel Scot McGloughan says. "You know what you're getting. Brady has much better mechanics and he's been in a pro-style offense. He's probably very similar to Matt Leinart."
The former Heisman Trophy-winning Southern California quarterback fell to the Cardinals, who appeared to get a steal at woith the 10th pick.
Another knock is Quinn's accuracy when he throws on the move. Quinn completed 58% of his passes, and 95 career touchdowns in 49 career starts are impressive production.
"He's going to be a top-seven pick, worst-case scenario," NFL Network draft analyst Mike Mayock says. "Detroit and Cleveland have to be significantly considering a quarterback. You can talk about Jon Kitna and Josh McCown in Detroit. And Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson all you want in Cleveland. But if either JaMarcus Russell or Brady Quinn is sitting there when they pick, you have to be aware that the potential franchise quarterback trumps everything else.
"The Raiders have to be doing their homework on Brady Quinn."
All must weigh Quinn's questions.
"There's an accuracy issue," Mayock says. "A couple of times a game, I run the tape back about eight times and say, 'Why did he miss that throw?' In the NFL, the windows get smaller, not larger."
Jimbo Fisher, Russell's former LSU offensive coordinator who is now in the same role at Florida State, also doesn't buy the perception that Quinn is more NFL-ready than his protege. He points to Russell's 24-5 record at LSU and leadership.
"JaMarcus checked every protection for us," Fisher says. "He had the ability on every pass to check off and throw to all our guys. I would be shocked if Brady did any more at Notre Dame than JaMarcus did for us.
"He's always in the film room studying. He's highly intelligent. He's a lot more athletic than people think. He's extremely tough, competitive and he'll put the time in. JaMarcus is about winning. You combine his intangibles with his great ability, and you get a great champion.
"There's always a learning curve at the next level. Would it shock me to see him go do it in his first year? No. I'll be shocked if he doesn't ever do it."
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/03/2007 10:04 AM |
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| I will bet you $500 that Brady Quinn doesn't win Rookie of the Year, and I'll give you 2:1 odds. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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Logan
Posts:2525
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| 08/03/2007 10:11 AM |
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| i think he'll do well but rookie of the year well i don't know. |
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dwight, refuting reality one post at a time. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/03/2007 10:17 AM |
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| Let's keep it friendlier. $100; 2:1 odds. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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Tim in Omaha
Posts:655
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DMan
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| 08/03/2007 2:20 PM |
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Posted By vranged on 08/03/2007 10:17 AM
Let's keep it friendlier. $100; 2:1 odds.
Here's my offer: No Odds. (Whatarewebookies!) If Quinn wins the award. Upon notification you send me $100. If someone else wins the award. I'll send you $100. If Quinn holds out and misses games (any games - even 1 game) as a result. No Bet. That is my offer. Take it or leave it.
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/03/2007 2:26 PM |
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| Alright. To make sure I understand, if he misses games b/c of a holdout, the bet's off. If he misses game b/c he sucks (i.e. the coach goes with another QB), then the bet is still on. Injuries -- no impact on bet. |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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DMan
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| 08/03/2007 10:39 PM |
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Posted By vranged on 08/03/2007 2:26 PM
Alright. To make sure I understand, if he misses games b/c of a holdout, the bet's off. If he misses game b/c he sucks (i.e. the coach goes with another QB), then the bet is still on. Injuries -- no impact on bet.
That is correct. It's a bet! Good Luck!
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Crit40
Posts:2483
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| 08/04/2007 2:23 PM |
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D-
Don't you think that's stepping just a tad far out on the limb? Adrian Peterson will be the rookie of the year in the NFL for YOUR Minnesota Vikings.
When I started this thread, I had no idea there was so much passion behind Quinn's success or failure. |
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Counting the Herd one hoof at a time. |
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DMan
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| 08/04/2007 4:11 PM |
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When I started this thread, I had no idea there was so much passion behind Quinn's success or failure.
Absolutely no passion. Just Vranged & I typically disagreing.
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Logan
Posts:2525
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| 08/06/2007 9:56 AM |
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| would d be d if he didn't make a wild azz bet? |
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dwight, refuting reality one post at a time. |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/07/2007 9:25 AM |
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| I'd like to go ahead and give my congrats to vranged. |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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vranged
Posts:2813
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| 08/07/2007 12:50 PM |
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| So, Dman, now that Quinn's holdout is over -- the bet is on, right? No turning back now? |
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After acknowledging that he was desperate, Dwight said "people will resort to saying things they know aren't true when they are desperate." That about sums it up! |
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egami
Posts:5397
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| 08/08/2007 1:52 PM |
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| *crickets* |
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Posted By Omahan on 11/04/2008 2:24 PM
I've worked very hard to become your friend egami. |
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